Coup de Grace and Charge

[Hypersmurf]

The general rule is that a ranged attack or a move provokes.

The general rule is that a ranged power provokes, and Nimble Strike is a ranged power.

-Hyp.

 

[Syrsuro]

The general rule is that a ranged power provokes, and Nimble Strike is a ranged power.

-Hyp.

So ask CS what they think of Nimble strike.

Carl

 

[Colmarr]

EDIT: Never mind

 

[Hypersmurf]

So ask CS what they think of Nimble strike.

To what end? I know that Nimble Strike is a ranged power (it has the keyword), and I know that ranged powers provoke (p271 and p290 tell me so), so what do I need to ask CS about? They'll either agree, or they'll contradict the PHB...?

-Hyp.

 

[Runestar]

I will also caution against relying too much on CustServ. You can send send them the same question multiple times and get different answers each time.

 

[Syrsuro]

To what end? I know that Nimble Strike is a ranged power (it has the keyword), and I know that ranged powers provoke (p271 and p290 tell me so), so what do I need to ask CS about? They'll either agree, or they'll contradict the PHB...?

-Hyp.

Or perhaps they will demonstrate a confusion on your part regarding how such powers are meant to be interpreted.

Anything is possible.

Carl

 

[deleteme123456]

I ran a search through the PHB and came up with
268: says ranged ATTACKS provoke
287: defined ranged basic attack as an at-will POWER. Says "like other ranged ATTACKS, a ranged basic ATTACK provokes..."
290: defined opportunity attack and says ranged POWER provokes.

The index for opportunity ACTION points to 268, which defines it as attack, and the index for opportunity ATTACK points to 290.

All in all, I'd call it a 2-2 tie. Or maybe 3-3.

 

[DracoSuave]

I ran a search through the PHB and came up with
268: says ranged ATTACKS provoke
287: defined ranged basic attack as an at-will POWER. Says "like other ranged ATTACKS, a ranged basic ATTACK provokes..."
290: defined opportunity attack and says ranged POWER provokes.

The index for opportunity ACTION points to 268, which defines it as attack, and the index for opportunity ATTACK points to 290.

All in all, I'd call it a 2-2 tie. Or maybe 3-3.

Ranged Attack is a subset of Ranged Power. So if all Ranged Powers provoke, a Ranged Attack must therefore provoke. All these rules can be true simultaneously.

For example, there's text that states that Basic Ranged Attack provokes. Does that mean that -only- that provokes, or is that merely the application of a broader rule?

As it turns out, it's just the application of the broader rule. Ranged Powers provoke opportunity attacks, therefore Basic Ranged Attack provokes.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ranged Attack is a subset of Ranged Power.

Or, possibly, a synonym, since a Utility Power can have the Attack Type of Ranged.

-Hyp.

 

[deleteme123456]

But a ranged utility power that does not attack (i.e., most utilities) isn't necessarily a ranged attack. Should it provoke an OA? Maybe, maybe not. I'm skeptical of labeling things attacks that aren't.

Warlord: "I attack my fighter ally with Heart of the Titan!"
Fighter: "Hey why are you attacking me?"
Warlord: "I'm trying to give you temporary hit points!"
Fighter: "By attacking me!?"
Warlord: "I promise it won't hurt!"

And PHB 270 defines an attack as having an attack roll (probably not the best definition, Armor of Agathys could certainly be considered an attack but has no roll...).

However PHB 271 under Ranged Attack says that Ranged Powers provoke. Nothing new here.

I agree in principle that the intent is that Ranged Powers provoke when adjacent... I disagree that this should cripple Nimble Strike and make Deft Strike even more powerful that it already is, which really belongs to the templating department.

I would propose "Using a ranged power or making a ranged attack while adjacent to an enemy..." which to me, fixes deft strike, because while may be non-adjacent when using the power, you don't make the attack until after movement, so then you would provoke if adjacent.

Powers like Nimble Strike need the templating on their end: "Special: using this power does not provoke opportunity attacks unless the attack is made while adjacent to an enemy."