Coup de grace - Evil act?

[daTim]

I agree, this person is obviously a munchkin even though I have never met him and have absoultly no information on his character other than which classes he chose. There is no possible justification for multiclassing in such a way.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Actually coup de grace was a humane solution, would the elves have prefered to have been waken up and then hacked to pieces, or go quietly in their sleep, I know what my choice would be, but I'm not a elf they make so little sense whoknows what they'd want. (now how's that for comma abuse)

 

[Dundragon]

posted by daTim:
I agree, this person is obviously a munchkin even though I have never met him and have absoultly no information on his character other than which classes he chose. There is no possible justification for multiclassing in such a way.

I disagree. Although the player at hand may not have a good justification for multiclassing this way, that doesn't rule out the possibility that a creative player can justify it in an interesting way. In fact, a character like that could be very interesting. (Although also munchkinlike in many ways)

As to the topic at hand, I don't believe that extracting vengeance on a group that killed your friends is an evil act at all. It is merely using your stealth to your advantage. If the PC CdGs an evil sorceress queen while she is sleeping, is that an evil act? I would say no, because you would be really nasty if you woke her up and challenged her to a fight. Granted a Lawful character should have qualms about CdGing while the opponent is asleep. But chaotic is chaotic, and it is my experience that players who declare their characters CG often roleplay NG instead. Chaotic characters disregard laws, traditions and the such, they concentrate on achieving what they see as their goals, not on making sure that everyone has a fair chance.

[edit: Ignore the first part of my message... for i have missed the sarcasm]

 

[graydoom]

A coup de grace isn't inherently evil... it's just another way to kill. It's no less evil or more evil than any of the instant death spells, or killing the person in melee combat. As long as the character can accept the concept "this person has done something that means they deserve to be killed", the character can coup de grace that person without worry.

 

[Victim]

I disagree. Although the player at hand may not have a good justification for multiclassing this way, that doesn't rule out the possibility that a creative player can justify it in an interesting way. In fact, a character like that could be very interesting. (Although also munchkinlike in many ways)

As to the topic at hand, I don't believe that extracting vengeance on a group that killed your friends is an evil act at all. It is merely using your stealth to your advantage. If the PC CdGs an evil sorceress queen while she is sleeping, is that an evil act? I would say no, because you would be really nasty if you woke her up and challenged her to a fight. Granted a Lawful character should have qualms about CdGing while the opponent is asleep. But chaotic is chaotic, and it is my experience that players who declare their characters CG often roleplay NG instead. Chaotic characters disregard laws, traditions and the such, they concentrate on achieving what they see as their goals, not on making sure that everyone has a fair chance.

Maybe it's just me, but I saw DaTim's response as a poke at the knee-jerk "munchkin! Die!" reaction that many people see to take.

Also, I'd rather have players use clever multiclassing to create the character they want, than have them whine that no class fits their character and that X special provisions should be made for them - special provisions that make them more powerful than an equivalent character.
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I don't see a problem with your tactics. They helped your presumably good cause alot more than a mad charge at the gates that simply adds your character to the KIA list.

 

[daTim]

It was just a poke, he didnt post here to get his character ridaculed, he wanted real advice.

 

[Dundragon]

oopsie

hmm...after reading over your post again i caught the sarcasm! In fact i don't know how i missed it the first time.

You have my apologies, i thought you were serious.

 

[Altalazar]

Either killing someone is wrong or it isn't - if it is an evil creature who actively attacked you, then it really shouldn't matter if it was a coup de grace or a critical hit that did the killing. They are still just as dead.

Now as for the matter of working with evil people...

It is sort of like asking a question like:

I went into the daycare center and set off the bomb that killed all the children. The force of the blast, while ripping the poor lads into shreds, only knocked the teacher unconcious. Now, is it evil if I use a coup-de-grace on the teacher?

 

[BlindKobold]

It was COMPLETELY and UTTERLY in character for a Liberator of TYMORA!

Tymora is the goddess of luck. The Liberator would simply believe that Tymora's luck was smiling on them by finding them in reverie.

It WOULD NOT have been in character for a paladin, although again.... a paladin of tymora may have some flexibility because of luck.

Just remember... luck is fickle...

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Hey, everyone has a different perception of what the alignment means. For my part It seems I even disagree with Sean K. Reynolds!

You remember LoTR?

"He deserves death."

"Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."

To me, a good character should never kill unless necessary (AKA self defense). And that usually means no CDG.

Some compare the morality of CDG to an execution. Is the death penalty evil? Some would say yes. But at least a death penalty sentence is only handed down by a judge after a trial before jury. You can't compare this to driving a sword through the throat of a sleeping man.

So yeah, by my interpretation of aligment your holy liberator would have to atone.

What about me, some might ask. Do I use CDG when I play? You betcha, most of my character would use it. And I can justify myself eight way to sunday if I have to. My opponents were evil and I had justice on my side! But when you'll look on my character sheet you'll see that my alignment is usually Chaotic Neutral, not Chaotic Good. In the end, my PCs wouldn't be pure enough to wield a holy sword and when the cleric shout his holy word spell I better cover my hears. I accept this.

Hey, it's not so bad. On the positive side my PCs are usually immune or partially protected from several evil powers!

Of course YMMV.