Coup de grace useless beyond Heroric Tier?

[ExploderWizard]

This is a bit macabre, but exection by beheading with sword or axe were a chacny affair. Perhps the worst one that happened at the Tower of London was:

Brutal tale. It was awesome. One prime reason for such bungling is the onset of anxiety over the taking of human life. This impediment to the act of murder is not represented in the D&D mechanics. There are no modifiers to represent "the willies" that a rational person might experience when trying to butcher a helpless target. In game terms the matter is simply a function of the wielder's competence with the implement.

As I stated earlier, the effectiveness of a CDG attack really depends on how one views hit points. If an attack must deliver X damage based on the level of the victim then hit points are being treated as physical wounds because the blow must actually chop through those hit points to do the job.

AD&D took a more abstract approach to hit points. A helpless or unconcious victim could be bound or slain in 1 round because HP had become a non-issue at that point.

 

[AllisterH]

AD&D took a more abstract approach to hit points. A helpless or unconcious victim could be bound or slain in 1 round because HP had become a non-issue at that point.

Sometimes the simplest solutions are best...

(Althought I thought the 2e DMG said that you had to roll your save vs Death Magic but with a penalty?)

 

[Akaiku]

Now using CDG rules as you get higher levels it plays more like this:

Monster - "Surrender or your friend dies!"

PC - "You shall not win, you will die filthy cur!"

Monster - "Then your friend dies....THWACK....uh...wait for it..."

PC's attack the monster

Monster - "No wait, he will die, just give me another chop or two. You'll see!"

PC's kill monster, downed PC gets up.

Downed PC - "Thanks guys, I knew you could save me!" (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

Or, if CdG is more instantly fatal.

Monster - "Then your friend dies....THWACK...." *friend dies*

PC's attack the monster

PC's kill monster, downed PC gets Raise Deaded.

Downed PC - "Thanks guys, I knew you could save me!" (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, now with a bit more sarcasim.)

Fatality in DnD isn't all that fatal.

 

[Garthanos]

A helpless or unconcious victim could be bound or slain in 1 round because HP had become a non-issue at that point.

sure in AD&D wasnt that a minute... that corresponds to 10 rounds ;-) or so right?

 

[Garthanos]

If hit points can represent random events of luck intervening in favor of the heroic... they still mean something even in context... but only if negative hit points are ummm hit points and they really arent treated much like they are ...

 

[Markn]

Fatality in DnD isn't all that fatal.

Hence, killing someone from time to time with CDG isn't a big deal, particularly when discussing high paragon and epic tiers where people have untold powers that restore them anywhere from 1/4 to full HP when they drop to 0 or die.

Believe me, its not the final fatality I'm after. CDG, when used sparingly is a means to an end. The end being tactical choices. Good tactical choices are what heroes are made of. Bad tactical choices are what Raise Dead might be needed for in a worse case scenario.

 

[Nebulous]

Is that the intent of coup de grace - to only be useful at heroic tier and less so as you move up or is it bad design?

Have monsters coup-de-grace ANY unconscious or dying character. A few auto-crits will kill just about anyone, especially if they were already in the negative. Of course, players argue "Why is it attacking me when i'm down???"

And the metagame argument is that there are 101 ways to make a 4e PC stand up the next round.

 

[ExploderWizard]

sure in AD&D wasnt that a minute... that corresponds to 10 rounds ;-) or so right?

Yup, but it takes anyone at least a minute to do anything. A GURPS fighter would clean house for sure.

 

[Garthanos]

Yup, but it takes anyone at least a minute to do anything. A GURPS fighter would clean house for sure.

and his neighbors house and his neighbors neighbors house...

If monsters only fight heros because heros are way more common than normal joes, then CDGing all the time makes sense..

 

[MrBeens]

Have monsters coup-de-grace ANY unconscious or dying character. A few auto-crits will kill just about anyone, especially if they were already in the negative. Of course, players argue "Why is it attacking me when i'm down???"

And the metagame argument is that there are 101 ways to make a 4e PC stand up the next round.

Isn't that exactly what everyone else has been saying for the past 3 pages?