Coup de grace useless beyond Heroric Tier?

[abyssaldeath]

If Mr. Logan is still reading, if you Coup de Grace with Twin Strike(or any multi-attack power) do you add up all the damage from all the hits when determining if you did more damage then the targets bloodied value?

I believe it does since Coup de Grace is used with an attack power not just an attack roll.

Edit: I just realized this isn't the thread Mr. Logan posted in. Oops.

 

[KarinsDad]

This is a bit macabre, but exection by beheading with sword or axe were a chacny affair. Perhps the worst one that happened at the Tower of London was:

No doubt.

But in real life or in the game, I wouldn't swing a sword or axe to behead a foe for a CDG.

I would lean over and slit their unmoving throat with the edge of the blade and I would never miss. The idea of a CDG is to kill a foe, not to behead them.

 

[Garthanos]

No doubt.

But in real life or in the game, I wouldn't swing a sword or axe to behead a foe for a CDG.

I would lean over and slit their unmoving throat with the edge of the blade and I would never miss. The idea of a CDG is to kill a foe, not to behead them.

Right and homicidal maniacs don't have there hands shake and miss the carotid or pause taking longer than it seems like they ought etc while they do it .... Of course are you paying attention at all to the other enemies about that want to interfere if you are a hm you might as well be a paranoid one too?
So literal monsters ought to be better at CDG than players.. humans do make the best monsters though ... and animals drag food off while its still alive they dont cdg.

 

[FurryFighter]

Why do you want to kill your PCs?

why would yo not wantto do the best job at being a worthy adversary as possible?

Give my PC a challenge, make death a likelyhood. Its not me thats dying its the PC Im rolling dice for. If this person cant possibly die, because the BBEGs are acting stupidly, or at least ignoring good tactical possibilities and advantages, to keep the game "balanced", where does the sense of desperation, struggle, heroism, etc come in? I want my PCs to die, if thats what CAN happen. My PCs are the ones fighting and dying, not me. Im just facilitating the storytelling. Don't water down a fight, as a DM, just because other people get whiney that their PC they rolled got killed. I want to see dead PCs, otherwise, its just a rollercoaster park game where PCs are invincible, and the end is always going to be obligatory victory. The best stories often include the hero failing. See "beowulf". Or "watchmen", if thats your sort of thing.

 

[BlightCrawler]

Can we house rule it? Sure, but thats not the point. I came here specifically to find out what others thought of this rule.

I'm glad you got what you wanted.

You can give certain monsters a special power that allows them to do more massive damage, and it only works against helpless targets. The Genasi Millers have an ability that does absolutely massive damage when they get bloodied the first time (3d10+4 at level 4). Granted, you're talking about much higher levels than that, but looking at the limited damage expressions for higher levels seems like it would get you to where you want. I'd even say that if the monster in question didn't have an ability to make anyone helpless, you could make it even higher, since it would require the proper pairing as well as synergy of two or more creatures to make work.

The other way to look at it is that with a few seconds of time, no one really has the time to make a careful execution style blow. Really, the max damage is there not because they can carefully cut their head off or anything, but because the target has absolutely no defense so you can easily get the equivalent of a critical strike (and better, since if you get the bloodied value it's dead). So the banter illustrated above doesn't work because combat doesn't flow that way.

Which brings another or additional option to light. Allowing a greater damage bonus to this Coup De Grace power at the cost of making the attacker grant combat advantage to everyone else. Now that would actually be pretty exciting to me, especially if the killing blow took a round to go into effect. Over the course of six seconds as the attacker is making his careful killing blow, the party can do everything in their power to try and interrupt it. That would be awesome. I think you've just sold me on using Coup De Grace to try and kill my players.

 

[Saeviomagy]

No doubt.

But in real life or in the game, I wouldn't swing a sword or axe to behead a foe for a CDG.

I would lean over and slit their unmoving throat with the edge of the blade and I would never miss. The idea of a CDG is to kill a foe, not to behead them.

And likely you would slit their throat and then they'd keep on fighting, at least for a couple of rounds.

FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness - FirearmsTactical.com

Page 11, second paragraph is particularly cogent. To paraphrase "a determined opponent can only be stopped by a shot to the central nervous system or by massive bleeding from holes in the heart or other vessels in the torso, and even then full voluntary action can continue for 10-15 seconds".

And this is ordinary people, not paragon-tier "I fight elephant sized fire breathing monsters with a pointy piece of metal" D&D heroes.

 

[jdriele]

Why don't you create a monster template named "executioner" or "without mercy".

Give to this template :

- Intimidation trained
- More damages with a CDG and a malus to heal check and save VS death

With this solution you create a own rule that's apply only with monster.

 

[Garthanos]

And likely you would slit their throat and then they'd keep on fighting, at least for a couple of rounds.

FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness - FirearmsTactical.com

Page 11, second paragraph is particularly cogent. To paraphrase "a determined opponent can only be stopped by a shot to the central nervous system or by massive bleeding from holes in the heart or other vessels in the torso, and even then full voluntary action can continue for 10-15 seconds".

And this is ordinary people, not paragon-tier "I fight elephant sized fire breathing monsters with a pointy piece of metal" D&D heroes.

Thanks for that link... I had actually read one sponsored by the military which had many of the same conclusions. It also mentioned that the same tough guy who one time took a major injury without flinching might be incapacitated the next time by a minor one... it was even harder to predict than this one implies....

I built a system based on these that ended up ironically like M&M .. the idea was you were "hit" by an attack and make a saving throw / resistance check which became a determinant of incapacitation... it was realistic and scary but ultimately anti-heroic.(I made probabilities based on D&D but the unpredictability made battle something you should really do anything to avoid...)