Coup de Gracing the Stunned?

[pokedigimaniac]

I'm a bit confused on this. By the RAW, it shouldn't be possible - Stunned folks do not seem to count as helpless, as they have separate modifiers to Armor Class. On the other hand, if someone is stunned, wouldn't they be open to that sort of shot to the vitals? (I'm aware that Stunned folks can be Sneak Attacked, as they lose their Dex bonus. I just don't see the difference.)

 

[Doctor Shaft]

A helpless character cannot move at all. They don't just lose their dex bonus to AC. Their dexterity, regardless of modifiers and actual stat number, is reduced to 0, conferring a penalty to their AC as is, as well as whatever bonus to attack modifiers the aggressor receives when choosing to hit a helpless opponent. That is what defines a helpless character.

A character that is stunned via stunning fist or a spell, is not considered helpless as they do not lose their entire dexterity stat, nor do they suffer the penalties associated with helplessness (which would be a whole lot heftier than just the loss of dex bonus to AC, and the +2 boost for the monk that used the stunning fist). In addition, the classification of a stunned opponent is "stunned," not "helpless," which is a very different category.

So no, you can't Coup de Grace a stunned opponent because they are not considered helpless.

But use "Freeze the Lifeblood" instead of stunning fist and you paralzye the opponent. Paralysis is considered "helpless."

So says me.

 

[Squire James]

I usually visualize a stunned foe as staggering around within his 5' square, vaguely aware he ought to be doing something like defending himself but not being able to do so completely... thus the loss of Dex bonus and bonus to people attacking him. "Helpless" generally implies the attacker can simply step up and plant his weapon where he wants easily and without significant chance of failure. Given this visualization, I do not think this is the case (he doesn't even fall prone).

 

[Bad Paper]

I agree with Squire James: you are stumbling around on your feet, a bit discombobulated, and unable to do very much. This state is very similar to being attacked by an invisible attacker: you cannot adequately defend yourself (lose Dex bonus to AC), but you are not helpless. Helpless means you are perfectly still, and your attacker can take a few seconds to line up a precise shot. Stunned (or being mobile yet attacked by an invisible attacker, or whatever) means you are still moving somewhat, and not the proverbial broad-side-of-a-barn.