couple of RotS questions (spoilers)

[ddvmor]

Now I just need to figure out what my own unsupportible theory on Anakin's birth will be and present it for public denouncement

My own feeling is that during the events of the as yet unwritten se-prequel, which takes place between eopisodes III and IV, Artoo accidentally creates a time vortex which sends the entire cast of all 6 movies 20 odd years into the past whereupon a series of side-splitting events involving mistaken identities, sports almanaks and an American Pie style house party take place resulting in EVERYONE being Anakin's father. imagine the quality angst he will get out of that!

The scene in the broom cupboard between Yoda and Chewbacca will be hilarious.

 

[Eosin the Red]

"Immaculate Conception" to refer to the fact that Anakin was supposedly conceived without a father.

That's a mistake.

What other easily understandible term for being born without an father, asexual reproduction, or cloning would you recommend to us? Oh yeah, it should hint that you just might be a prophesied messianic figure

 

[wingsandsword]

What other easily understandible term for being born without an father, asexual reproduction, or cloning would you recommend to us? Oh yeah, it should hint that you just might be a prophesied messianic figure

"Virgin Birth" is the religious term for being born by conception without a father. "Immaculate Conception" really does just mean being born without original sin, they are different and don't always go together, but I'll stop there to keep this from going too far into religion and just clarify the terms being used).

They are not the same, any more than D&D and d20 are the same, different field, different terms easily confused by most.

 

[Desdichado]

"Immaculate Conception" really does just mean being born without original sin, they are different and don't always go together, but I'll stop there to keep this from going too far into religion and just clarify the terms being used).

As you say, though, only to Catholics. To a Protestant, Immaculate Conception would completely be the correct term to describe Anakin's conception.

 

[Eosin the Red]

"Virgin Birth" is the religious term for being born by conception without a father.

What if she wasn't a virgin ?

PS - d20 and D&D are interchangible to me. No difference. You may just be much more nuianced than I.

 

[Eosin the Red]

As you say, though, only to Catholics. To a Protestant, Immaculate Conception would completely be the correct term to describe Anakin's conception.

Ah, my religion-fu failed me. Guiltly of WASP-ism here.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

As you say, though, only to Catholics. To a Protestant, Immaculate Conception would completely be the correct term to describe Anakin's conception.

I would agree with this...

But please no real world religious debate. It holds no real place in this movie or this series of movies.

That isn't a true thread warning BTW and it’s a general blanket statement not directed at anyone in particular.

 

[Wayside]

They are not the same, any more than D&D and d20 are the same, different field, different terms easily confused by most.

Actually, just in terms of the logic of myth, the relation of immaculate conception to virgin birth is sufficient but not necessary. All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. The D&D-d20 analogy doesn't really work. (I say the logic of myth because obviously anybody who wants to can design a new myth on the fly that contradicts the actual record of myths as a discipline of study, but such a myth would have about as much capital qua myth as Esperanto has qua language.)

I was being too loose with the term certainly, although it does raise an interesting question as to the nature of Anakin's fall now that Danzauker brings it up. That is, Adam would have been born free of original sin, just as, if we read it a certain way, Anakin might have been, transposing the absolute morality of the concept of sin in the Judaeo-Christian tradition into the absolute of the light and dark sides of the force. And just as Jesus, in a sense the son of Adam, redeems his father's sin, so Luke restores Anakin to the light.

I do believe that Lucas was working more with a general trend in myth than with any specific configuration though, just like he was working with trends in politics more than any specific contemporary political dynamic. But I suppose a case can be made for a Judaeo-Christian reading of the story, that is to say, I can at least entertain, if not accept, Anakin's immaculate conception as well as his virgin birth. Really though I liked Joshua's response in another thread, to the effect that this whole line of thought is unnecessary. I only brought it up initially as an argument against Palpatine's having created Anakin which seems more valid than the very "what if" scenarios necessary to make that reading of Anakin's birth work.

 

[Plane Sailing]

< moderator hat >
I think that any uncertainties about virgin birth and immaculate conception has been covered to a sufficient extent, and can now be dropped before it enters the Inevitable Death Spiral(tm) for a thread

We now return to our regularly scheduled RotS questions...
</ moderator hat>

Regards,

 

[Darth K'Trava]

Hehehe. Let me tell you a secret of mine...

When Star Wars first hit my theater, I didn't watch it at first. One look at Darth Vader on the billboard poster and I was scared. I thought it was a horror film. I even had nightmares about Vader coming to get me. For an 8-year-old, I have not begun to process what is real and what is not. I mean I don't know why I dreamt that Vader would come after me.

I grew up and two years later I finally watched Star Wars as a TV movie. Vader didn't scare me now, not when I have my action figures standing guard.

Whether a child should be allowed to see certain content or not, that's up to the parents, because for the most parts, they [should] know their kids well. Let them grow up at their own pace, not what society demand nor expect of them.

My secret? I fell asleep the first time I saw Star Wars. I was about 7 and saw it, past our bedtime, at a local drive-in theater in Homestead, FL. We had to go see it again since, if I recall, ALL 3 of us kids dozed off during it. Granted, I was the oldest.... We went to see all 3 of the original trilogy as a family thing, probably mainly due to the fact they were PG-rated and we weren't allowed to see anything R-rated for a VERY LONG TIME.