CR and Base Statistics

[AuraSeer]

How much should a creature's CR be affected by its base statistics (Str, Dex, Con, etc)?

This question occurred to me while I was converting Reverse Dungeon to 3E. In that module, the players take the part of a goblin tribe, and try to defend their lair from those pesky adventurers.

I quickly realized the big difference in power between the goblin MM entry, and a goblin PC. If you were to generate the MM stats with point buy, you'd have a 13-pont character, which is downright puny. A standard PC would have nearly double the stat points to spend.

The MM goblin has a CR of 1/4. What would be the CR of an exceptional goblin, having 25 stat points?

 

[Lord Ben]

A lot depends really. If they have access to Wargs then they get +6 to ride and the free mounted combat feat, they also have a racial +4 to move silently. That's a cool ability. As far as stats go they get -2 str, +2 dex, -2 cha. That's only slightly worse then a halfling. Halflings get +1 to every saving throw, +1 with thrown weapons, and no charisma penalty. Goblins have the mounted feats...

I'd say to make it even give them 28pts instead of 25 and call it even. That would be fair. Also figure they're favored class is rogue where the MM example is for a warrior.

 

[Lord Ben]

I suppose I didn't answer the original quetion very well. All analysis and no conclusion.

Make them ECL 0. A hobgoblin is ECL 0 and they're far more powerful then PC races, Goblins are less powerful, but not that much so. Goblins would be the low end of the ECL 0 scale, Hobgoblins at the high end.

 

[AuraSeer]

No, not ECL. Obviously they're ECL 0. I'm talking about Challenge Rating (CR).

If there's a party of four adventurers attacking the goblin lair, I want to figure out how many goblins to match against them. With higher goblin stats, it takes fewer goblins to match the same number of adventurers; the question is, how many fewer?

 

[Lord Ben]

Besides higher stats do they get short swords instead of morningstars? What about things like alch fires, nets, tanglefoot bags, etc? Are they rogues and fighters instead of warriors? Do they get max first level hp?

If they're rogues and fighters with normal 1st level equipment of ~100gp I'd say they'd be CR1.

If the only difference is stats but they don't have max HD for first level, etc I'd say make them 1/3 or 1/2. One or two characters with power attack and cleave will saw through 4-5hp Goblins like crazy.

How are the "normal" characters going to be? All you need is one human fighter with a spiked chain and cleave and the goblins are toast.