Craft-Perform-Profession Question

[Deadguy]

Thanx for pointing out that other people have other problems. I'm asking questions that other forum members (would?) laugh at.

BUT..... Profession and/or Craft abused by a DM? Horrible and inunderstandable.....

Please tell me.

Kind regards

Abusive DMs? Oh, I've heard horror stories of DMs that decide only after character creation that certain skills aren't adequate to fulfil a role. Just look at the example at the start of this discussion where we have Craft (cooking) and Profession (chef). There's a certain sort of DM that distinguishes those two, and then says 'as you only have Craft (cooking) you can't pass yourself off as the Duke's chef - you'd need Profession (chef) for that'! One I've specifically heard of involved a subtle and complex distinction between Craft (alchemy), Craft (herbalist), Profession (apothecary) and Profession (alchemist)...

Basically they slice the Craft and Profession skills into so many elements that even PCs who have bothered with these skills (and be honest - for standard adventurers, they are flavour skills) can never have the exact skill the DM says is required.

 

[irdeggman]

Heck my DM just recently insisted that in order to make a wand a character must have a masterwork quality wand to start with. He insists that the wording talking about material costs based on spells was referring to this.

My son's PC (a 6th level wizard) just took the craft wands feat but doesn't have any craft skill to make a masterwork wand so he has to find one to buy.

I've told my DM to tell me what craft skill does my character (2ft/4cl (Kord)) needs to make masterwork wands. He said whatever is applicable. Craft-woodworking, craft-metalworking, etc. depending on what the wand is made of.

I've also pointed out to him that if this is the policy he is implementing than the wand cannot be allowed to turn into a useless stick once all the charges are used (as described in the DMG) since no masterwork quality item is ever consumed. He didn't really address this issue.

 

[JakeTG]

With regards to the original topic I would just like to summarize what alot of people are saying and put it in my own words:

Perform: This is any service which entails that the person is entertaining people, as opposed to providing them with a tangible or consumable good. For example:

Perform (Instrument): This "entertainer" could then use their skill with an instrument and go perform for money by entertaining people.

Craft: This is any service which entails that the person creates something tangible which they can either use or consume. For example:

Craft (Musical Instruments): This "craftsman" could then use their skill to create instruments which can be used by the entertainer. It is possible for the craftsman to then go and sell his instruments, but he has to create each instrument individually and then go sell them to each musician (not very lucrative on a one to one basis).

Profession: This is any service which entails that the person mitigates between people with "Perform" or "Craft" and people who buy or use the products. It often entails an understanding of a multitude of topics. Here are two examples:

Profession (Music Manager): This "professional" would use their skills to: locate talented musicians, set-up performances for multiple musicians, and understand what kinds of music are popular within the culture or area. Note that this professional doesn't need any knowledge of how to play an instrument, or perform in any way

Profession (Instrument Store Manager): This "professional" would use their skills to recognize top quality instruments, be knowledgeable with locating craftsmen, and being able to sell to customers and barter with them. Note that this professional doesn't need any knowledge of how to craft a musical instrument, simple the business of buying and selling.

The other thing to use in determining if a skil is a craft or profession is the pharse in the PHB "To draw a modern analogy if an occupation is a service industry, it's probably a Profession skill. If it's in the manufacturing sector, it's probabl a Craft skill"


Cooking a meal is a service industry whereas mass producing meals (like trail rations) could be perceived as a profession.

Not realy, if you mass produce meals and then eat all the food your not making a profession, its still crafting.

However, if you had Profession (restaurant owner) or Profession (farmer) this would be a profession, as you need minor knowledge of a bunch of different things.

Basically I'm saying "Making food" is not a service industry, but "Selling food" is a service industry, thus is goes under profession (note you can still sell food without a profession that involves skills with selling the food, in the same way without any training in Perception can still make a Perception check)

 

[Starfox]

In our campaign...

On my viewer, orange text is very hard to read.

 

[Starfox]

Cooking a meal is a service industry whereas mass producing meals (like trail rations) could be perceived as a profession.

Because "cooking" today used pre-fabricated ingredients that are mostly just heated and served. A medieval kitchen has no prefabs.

 

[Li Shenron]

What's the difference between Craft (Cooking) and Profession (Chef)?

What's the difference between Perform (Comedy) and Profession (Comedian)?

Bluntly, I'd imagine I'd use Craft(cooking) for someone who does the labor of manually cooking, and Profession(chef) for the master who imparts orders to the laborers, design the menus and the dishes, and runs the business. Note that for instance in Italy, professional cooking schools (e.g. at high school level) teach you the first (in fact the title gained for completing those schools is typically "Cook assistant"). Chef is usually something you become after years of practice, a little bit like moving to a manager's position, although chefs also take part in the manual labor to guide the assistants, or for the most difficult tasks, or the finishing touches.

For the second, I can picture a very typical case in TV comedy. A solo stand-up comedian is usually a high-Cha person with natural talent first of all. But when you have 2 at the same time, most likely (not always of course) one of them is the main artist and the other one is the sidekick. The main artist is the Perform(Comedy) guy, the sidekick is the Profession(Comedian), someone who has a long experience but for some reason (missing that special "spark" of uniqueness, or missing the perfect "look") is not suited to being the main character under the spotlight. Still, it's a tough job that requires its own talent and plenty of dedication. It's possibly also more suitable to savvy people more than to ambitious people.

That said... just keep in mind that D&D is not math, the rules are always suppose to be useful and help you create characters and situations. This means, it doesn't matter much if in one game you use Craft(cooking) and in another you use Profession(cook), whatever works best for you is the right choice. You can have just one of them in your game, you can have both, you can have even more... it doesn't matter if they overlap, all that matters is if you find them useful.

 

[Starfox]

Another way to put it:

Intelligent people tend towards Craft skills. The learn the details of how to actually do and make stuff. In the kitchen, they are the masters of materials, knives, and recepies.

Wise people tend towards Profession skills. They are good at dealing unobtrusively with customer (a Sense Motive like ability to know what service the customer needs), and they have the vision to push towards a goal. In the kitchen, they make the menues, deal with the guests, and keep the organization running.

Charismatic people tend to use Perform skills and be in sales or advertisement. In a restaurant, they act as toastmasters, maitre'd and as entertainment.

If the players want to infiltrate the Baron's kitchen, either of these skills should suffice, but each uses slightly different tactics.