D&D 4E Crafting... can anyone make anything in 4E?

[dreadon]

What i did for my champain is let every character take 1 free trained background skill. Such as we ended up with the following skills: Trapper, Flecher, Dentist, Teacher, Shopkeeper, Exmilitary, Scribe. This represents the training they got before becoming adventures. If i need to know any DCs for crafting i can and have looked up my 3.x books. The prices for basic items have not realy changed from 3x to 4e so if my player need somthing that is not in the PHB i go look it up in my other books.

 

[UltimaGabe]

I, for one, agree that 4e seems to focus first and foremost on combat (and any rules that don't have an applicable role in combat or social encounters are either glossed over or omitted entirely). However, I have to say, I'm completely with WotC on not including rules for crafting. As it was, 3.x's crafting rules were terrible- they were a waste of skill points, because anybody running through a pre-existing campaign or adventure path would never have the time necessary to make anything, and even if they did, it wouldn't be worth the time and effort to make it when you could just travel to the city and buy it. And the more expensive the items got (at higher levels), the more skewed the crafting system became- especially when you're spending ten to twelve years to craft a single dose of black lotus extract poison.

Basically, it was a big mess of rules that never got used. And when they did get used, they were so heavily house-ruled that they might as well have not put rules at all.

If you absolutely need rules for it, make it an Intelligence or Dexterity check, and follow the DCs in the PHB. Apply House Rules as necessary.

 

[On Puget Sound]

Ok.. so, what kind of check is it? How fast does it take to craft something? How much does it cost? If a character wants to get better at crafting, what can he do about it?

If the answer is simply to "RP it", I have no idea how long a long sword takes to craft, or anything else for that matter.
At least a vague attempt by WotC at some sort of way to handle this would have been helpful.

I know people hate to hear this, and you mauy feel it's a flaw in the rules, but it really is... up. to. you. Like the ships in Babylon 5 that move "at the speed of plot". It takes exactly as long as you want the PCs delayed.

What is the story reason the PC needs to make his own sword? Will it A) advance the story or B) distract from it if that is more difficult? It can range from

"OK, you spend the next few days hammering out a crude blade"

to

"After six months of careful work you have crafted a beautiful blade with gem-encrusted hilt (deduct the gold from your inventory), a worthy wedding gift for the Duke. Now I'll roll your Thievery to see how well you hid the poison needle in the hilt."

If that doesn't cover your needs, you can lift the 3rd edition rules for Craft skill, or look to third party publications. I think Mongoose or Green Ronin or someone put out a sourcebook called "Experts", and there was an old system called Chivalry and Sorcery that tried to faithfully recreate every aspect of medieval life; every morning you rolled on the Vermin Table to find out what infestation you woke up with. (ok, slight exagerration)

 

[Timeboxer]

I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned skill challenges yet.

So I will: skill challenges.

 

[Kordeth]

I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned skill challenges yet.

So I will: skill challenges.

I'd argue that rituals are the more appropriate rules system to imitate with crafting, but I think the issue most people have is not "how do I set up a crafting scenario?" but "what skill do I use for crafting?"

 

[Karui_Kage]

Well you use the Craft skill of course.

Oh...wait...

 

[thewok]

I plan to use the following guideline: If you spend more time making swords than adventuring, you're a blacksmith and not a fighter. Thus, you should probably roll another character, as adventuring is the focus of the campaign.

However, I will be taking backgrounds from my players, and their backgrounds will tell me what skills they'd have that aren't covered by the rules. The example of smithing, for example, will be handled as a skill challenge.

Setup: You need a new weapon, and the market just doesn't have one fit for enchanting. You'll have to take it upon yourself to make a weapon capable of holding the magic you plan to imbue into it.

Level: Equal to the level of the character.

Complexity: 3 (requires 8 successes before 4 failures).

Primary Skills: Endurance, Dexterity, Strength.
Secondary Skill: History, Perception.

Endurance (moderate DCs): You shrug off the effects of numerous hours hammering metal in the heat of the forge.

Dexterity (moderate DCs): Implementing more style than brute force, you are able to form the metal to a more usable shape.

Strength (moderate DCs): You bring your hammer down in a wide arc, flattening and folding the metal into something more resembling the picture in your mind.

Perception (easy DCs): You quickly recognize a flaw in the metal before it cools, or you realize that the forge is too hot/cold, and you adjust accordingly. (max. 2 successes)

History (easy DC): You remember reading an old book about a technique used in the last great empire that both strengthened and lightened their blades. (max. 1 success, and next Strength or Dexterity check gains a +5 insight bonus)


Success: You emerge from the smithy with a masterwork weapon, suitable for any enchantment that you might want.

Failure: Your efforts at the forge have resulted in a fine weapon. Any soldier in the king's army would be proud to have it at his side, yet it remains unsuitable for enchantments.

Why a skill challenge? Because smithing is more than just smashing the hell out of a block of steel. There's technique and real study that goes into a smithed creation. A single craft skill can't model that well, in my opinion.

To me, "failure" of a skill challenge means you didn't accomplish all of your goals. I also think that "masterwork" weapons should be a rarity, rather than the norm. To me, "masterwork" implies the work of a very skilled practitioner of an art, most likely one who has devoted his entire life to the craft. An adventurer might be able to make one with past smithing experience and practice in the offtime, but the chances are slim. As I said above, if you want to be a master smith, you're not going to have enough time for adventuring, and thus you really don't need adventuring levels.

 

[Grimbot]

I saw that someone (I thought it was on these forums) had created a Ritual: Armorsmithing ritual. It seems like a good solution...

 

[Arravis]

I'd rather not House Rule, or if I do, do so with as little changes to the actual rules as possible. One thing I had considered is to do the following.

Objects crafted from materials predominantly found in the ground use Dungeoneering. Weaponsmithing, mining, etc would fall under this.

Objects crafted from materials predominantly found on top of the ground use Nature. Farming, Bowyery, etc would fall here.

Objects crafted from processed materials predominantly use Streetwise. Baking, tailoring, etc would fall here.

Essentially it breaks down to underground, aboveground, and city. Now, what the DCs, cost, and time would be I hadn't given thought to yet. I was thinking using the ritual rules as well, and I suspect that is the best solution... but I hadn't gone over them yet to know.

Thanks for all the comments guys.

 

[Arravis]

And a crafting character doesn't mean its unplayable. As mentioned earlier, in my campaign, it is quite critical. Of course, setting it at a late stone-age / early bronze-age level helps.

If the party is attacked by a monster, such as a giant centipede, the monster doesn't have loot... the monster is the loot.
The hard shell of the creature can be used to make armor, shields, or any number of items. The pincers could be made into weapons from daggers to spears, etc, or perhaps tools. The meat inside is cooked and eaten, poisons are extracted, and it might hold strange properties like its bile acting as a dye, or other unique traits.
Weird I know, but my group loves it .