Crafting Unique Items - advice and thoughts needed

[Gregor]

Hello all,

So I have a player in my group that wants to have his PC (rogue) craft mechanical items to achieve relatively mundane goals (batman type grappling hook things, etc.). I am completely fine with this as it sounds really creative and interesting, and he has kept up his roleplaying commitment behind this and even spending his skill points on knowledge engineering and we worked out a craft skill for mechanisms and such.

However, I am not really sure how to appropriately adjudicate the construction of one these items. I really want him to be able to achieve his character's goals, but I want to make sure its in a way that is balanced and fair.

For the sake of advice, the item in question is (in his words) is a bracer that would cover a forearm and be equipped with a crossbow type mechanism that would fire a grappling hook and line and then raise him up.

So my questions/assumptions:

1) does an item like this already exist in a d20 book?
2) what should an item like this cost to make? or is there an equivalent magic item I can use as a base?
3) I am assuming that his use of items like this would take up a magic item slot so that he cannot double up on items (e.g. magic bracers as well as this grappling thing).
4) This item would need to fire a bolt (an attack bonus?) with a line and likely make a use rope check (similar to using a grappling hook by throwing it), have a strength score to haul him up (alternatively he could have to crank himself up by his own power).

All thoughts, advice and suggestions are welcome as I would really like to make this work (which isn't game breaking obviously).

Thanks.

 

[thompsja]

Hello all,

So I have a player in my group that wants to have his PC (rogue) craft mechanical items to achieve relatively mundane goals (batman type grappling hook things, etc.). I am completely fine with this as it sounds really creative and interesting, and he has kept up his roleplaying commitment behind this and even spending his skill points on knowledge engineering and we worked out a craft skill for mechanisms and such.

However, I am not really sure how to appropriately adjudicate the construction of one these items. I really want him to be able to achieve his character's goals, but I want to make sure its in a way that is balanced and fair.

For the sake of advice, the item in question is (in his words) is a bracer that would cover a forearm and be equipped with a crossbow type mechanism that would fire a grappling hook and line and then raise him up.

So my questions/assumptions:

1) does an item like this already exist in a d20 book?
2) what should an item like this cost to make? or is there an equivalent magic item I can use as a base?
3) I am assuming that his use of items like this would take up a magic item slot so that he cannot double up on items (e.g. magic bracers as well as this grappling thing).
4) This item would need to fire a bolt (an attack bonus?) with a line and likely make a use rope check (similar to using a grappling hook by throwing it), have a strength score to haul him up (alternatively he could have to crank himself up by his own power).

All thoughts, advice and suggestions are welcome as I would really like to make this work (which isn't game breaking obviously).

Thanks.

I'd call it a wondrous item, that uses Levitate as a base. He should get the 30% off, since it requires a skill roll rather than an automatic win. Assume he can use it once a day, and it comes out to

(3 * 2 * 2000) /5 ) *.7 = 2400 * .7 = 1680 gold pieces purchase price, 840 gold to create, 67 XP required.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

I would have thought this would be on google somewhere, but no luck! I don't do this sort of thing much, but here's how I'd approach it. YMMV...

Figure the total cost of the item. Look for existing magic items, and/or compare to magic item enhancements under the magic item creation rules
[sblock]You can compare to Boots of Levitation, they lift 300lb at 20ft/round for 7500gp. If the grappling hook gun just uses a normal attack roll (vs inanimate object AC), then knock off 10% for "special skill use", to 6750gp.

Note: Figuring as a wondrous item from scratch (kind of like thompsja in the previous post), using levitate (or spider climb) as the base effect, with unlimited command word activation, gives CL3 x SL2 x 1800 =10800gp, so I'm not sure how Boots of Levitation were priced! (Anyone else know? Am I missing something?)

Could also figure this cost in other ways, such as a competence bonuses on Climb (+8 is 6400gp, for example). IMHO, that seems more applicable to a non-magical item. Using it this way is more complex (eg, item grants a constant 20ft climb speed toward the grappling hook, still need to make climb checks, but without the fall-on-failure, for example), but I think it's more flexible and probably easier to rule when your player decides to use the device to swing across a chasm or something Don't know what you'd do then if you based it around levitate![/sblock]

To make it, I would figure it in 2 parts: cost of "ready made" pieces, then cost of building the item itself. Together they total this target price of 6750gp (or whatever you decide).
[sblock]Making it:

(1) get ready-made parts. For example:

• mwk hand crossbow (400gp),
• superior grappling hook/bolt (steel hook 20gp?? OR adamantium embedding hook/claw/bolt 80??),
• superior line (steel cable, 1/4", 50ft, hard10, hp8, 10lb, 100gp??; OR mithral wire, 50ft, hard15, hp4, 1lb, 500gp??)
• mwk bracer (300gp??, since that's the armor mwk cost?)

= approx 900-1300gp (lots of wild guess on my part, though!)
Call it 1100gp for now.

(2) Use the target total price minus cost of ready-made components: with my numbers above, that's 5650gp (=6750-1100). This is the remaining cost for the Craft checks, using DC20 for "complex or superior item".

You could also break this into multiple checks, with target cost split between them, especially good if the player has a couple relevant skills. For example Profession(Engineer) to design & make the "superior winch" at DC20, cost 3650gp; followed by a Craft(Bows&Crossbows) to assemble the whole "mwk wristmounted grappling crossbow" at DC20, cost 2000gp)

I imagine 1/25 of this last manufacture cost ought to be paid in XP, as for a magic item, for balance. So that's a cost of 226XP.[/sblock]

To use thing I'd treat it as a mwk hand crossbow, with limitations.
[sblock]Its a mwk hand cross bow, an exotic weapon. The wire restricts it to only one range increment. Fire it as an normal ranged attack with a mwk weapon. Against an inanimate object, AC is 3+size modifier. Aiming for full round gives +5 bonus on attack roll. If the attack hits, it is secured. If it misses, it can be retracted at 20ft/round.

If using a grappling hook, there must be something for it to grab. Usually such things are medium or smaller objects, but raised ledges, the corner of a crenelaltion, gutters, etc are also possible (DM rulings, here!!). The anchor point must be able to support the weight of the climber. Hitting a a creature deals no damage (maybe trip attacks are possible?)

Unhooking a grappling hook is a standard action.

If using adamantine grappling claw, it can be used as a normal grappling hook; or it can be fired at a flat surface (therefore much larger targets are possible), but in this case the bolt must do 5hp of damage to be secured. Adamantium bypasses most normal walls' hardness, and the bolt does damage as a normal crosbow bolt, against walls or creatures (does a grappling bolt "hook" a creature? What are the harpoon rules?)

Extracting a grappling bolt is a full-round action.

The grappling hook crossbow pulls 300 lb at 20ft/round (300lb for effective caster level of 3rd on levitate spell. 20ft/round because thats the speed of all those 2nd level spells: levitate & spider climb, etc. I'd up the price to make it faster.)

If it was crafted using the Skill bonus method, it still requires climb checks, but grants max climb speed of 20ft/round, and prevents falling on failed climb check.

If Levitate based, no skill check necessary and simply lifts (but how to rule other uses (eg, to rapel downward, swing, fired hoizontally, use as weapon, etc)?
[/sblock]
Sorry, that was a blast of too much info - but fun to think about. I didn't run the numbers, though, so I don't know how long it takes to do this with Craft rules, and I'm assuming balance against the Boots of levitation. Hope I'm not too off base

 

[Gregor]

These are awesome suggestions, thanks.

It'll give me something to start thinking about in more detail. I'll likely re-post in this thread when I wrap my head around it and produce something for others to critique.

 

[Magesmiley]

There's a supplement (Clock and Steam) for Dave Arneson's Blackmoor that might be useful for this. It is devoted pretty much to mechanical gadgets and how they work in the 3.5 world. Admittedly it's intended for the Blackmoor setting, but I think you most of it could be adapted for your own world.