Crafting with hirelings using aid other

[Storyteller01]

Kerrick
"Can you fit 69 dwarves around the anvil to help you forge the weapon or are you going to be tripping over them trying to get stuff done. 3-5 maximum."

i can fit 69 dwarves in a large cave fetching tools, fanning the fire, makeing the hilt ect.


i guess this is the wrong place to get alittle peach eh?

if anyone has problems with 69 dwarves, anyone know of good crafting rules that dont wast feats and makes craft a usefull skill? I found a usefull and ecnomic way to use craft although its not the most realistic, but i dont think it is as far out as everyone thinks.

If people are fetching tools, heating the forge, etc they're not actually crafting anything. No roll is made for them. Those actually crafting (the 3-5 around the forge) would be the ones making the check.

Does the nurse handing the tools to the doctor actually give him a +2, or just Quickdraw (medical tools) so he doesn't have to waste an action? Granted, said nurse does more than that, but does handling the doctors tools provide any other benefit?

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Having tools handed to ones self makes a job go faster, and in crafting, a higher dc means the job goes faster, so that’s my logic anyway. I realize that their is a business theory that having too many workers makes a job go slower, i just wanted feedback anyway.

ok, so a guy in the OR, and suddenly his bp drops and goes into fib, instead of the doctor needing to get the defibrillator to blast the patient himself, he gets the nurse right next to him to use the defib while another nurse gets the defib from across the room.

The aids may not help him cut, but they to help the survivability of the patients. Ask yourself, would you want a nurse to help a doctor if you were split open on that table, or would you rather have that doctor go solo? yeah, thought so, the nurse is doing something to help the patients in some way. It may not be allot of help, but is help. After all it’s only a +2 bonus. Although in the OR, its probably a lot bigger bonuses then +2

 

[Storyteller01]

Having tools handed to ones self makes a job go faster, and in crafting, a higher dc means the job goes faster, so that’s my logic anyway. I realize that their is a business theory that having too many workers makes a job go slower, i just wanted feedback anyway.

ok, so a guy in the OR, and suddenly his bp drops and goes into fib, instead of the doctor needing to get the defibrillator to blast the patient himself, he gets the nurse right next to him to use the defib while another nurse gets the defib from across the room.

The aids may not help him cut, but they to help the survivability of the patients. Ask yourself, would you want a nurse to help a doctor if you were split open on that table, or would you rather have that doctor go solo? yeah, thought so, the nurse is doing something to help the patients in some way. It may not be allot of help, but is help. After all it’s only a +2 bonus. Although in the OR, its probably a lot bigger bonuses then +2

Which deviates from my arguement. While she's handing off tools, she's not aiding significantly to the heal skill. When she uses the defib, she's now doing more than handling tools. Same with the tool handlers in the forge. If all they're doing is handling tools, they aren't much help to the skill itself.

You could always test this yourself. Get some friends in a garage and act out forging the weapon. Most smithies aren't much bigger than this (many are much smaller), and areas with multiple forges will have similar space set aside for each forge. See how many it takes before you start having redundant personnel who aren't actually helping. It'll be much less than 69.

 

[taliesin15]

i dident think bardic music stacked with other bardic music, but omg, hireing one bard for bardic music is a awsome idea. Thanks. I like the flavor alot.

more what I meant was I didn't think you could have a single Bard inspire for more than an hour or so (maybe the rules don't say it, but it defies common sense in my view)--so essentially I'm suggesting a kind of fantasy RPG music festival (like the ACL fest we just had in Austin)--but sure, why not have bards combine, at least for a few face-to-face jams on Freebird?

 

[pawsplay]

Which deviates from my arguement. While she's handing off tools, she's not aiding significantly to the heal skill. When she uses the defib, she's now doing more than handling tools. Same with the tool handlers in the forge. If all they're doing is handling tools, they aren't much help to the skill itself.

I think she is aiding. Her help gives a +2 bonus. I know I would rather have a nurse there than some guy off the street handing over tools. Maybe the nurse is just standing by in case nursing is needed; if you roll 2 less than the DC, the nurse springs into action and does something only a trained medical person can do.

Also, some nurses are male.

 

[Kerrick]

I looked at the link you provided, and it seems slower then normal crafting It would take 1 year to craft a masterwork weapon

Okay, let's show an example...

Edit: I screwew up. Sad but true, I didn't read my own rules, but in my defense, I haven't looked at this system in awhile. I should have stated the first time that I reversed the cost modifiers for MW weapons and armor - weapons are +150 gp, and armor is +300 gp - it makes much more sense that way.

Masterwork longsword: 165 gp. It's a Small, Difficult item (x1/3) with a DC 20 Craft check to make. We'll say, for the sake of argument, that you're making an average of 25 on each check (2 helpers and bonuses). 25 gp/day, divided by 3, is 8 gp; it'll take you around 20 days to make. If you go with the normal price (315 gp), it takes around 40 days. Either way, it's nowhere near a year.

Realistically, this is probably a bit low - it takes that long to make a normal sword in the real world - but since we're dealing with game balance here, this sounds just about right. If someone could come up with a better alternative than the "gp/day" thing, he could probably fix the whole system, but no one's done it yet, so this is what I use. If you added in the bard, a masterwork forge, and a crafting item, you could easily boost the roll to 30-40; at 35, you're making 12 gp/day, which gets the blade done in 13 days.

 

[Ciaran]

I think she is aiding. Her help gives a +2 bonus. I know I would rather have a nurse there than some guy off the street handing over tools. Maybe the nurse is just standing by in case nursing is needed; if you roll 2 less than the DC, the nurse springs into action and does something only a trained medical person can do.

This clearly mimics modern medical practice, where for critical surgical procedures in which cost is no object, several hundred nurses are squeezed into the operating room for maximum coverage.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Masterwork longsword: 165 gp.

well a masterwork longsword is 315, so its more like 6 months. I really like the crafting rules in unearthed arcana, but its broken in my view that one has to take a feat to craft master-work weapons. I think that defeats the point in dumping ranks unto craft.
anyway, thanks for the feedback everyone.

 

[Jdvn1]

I'd have thought up to seven dwarves can work together...

(whistles)

 

[Jdvn1]

Would you allow this?

Nope.

Is this a valid use of hirelings? What if a hireling fails on the aid other (dc 10) is it fair not to pay him/her?

Maybe, according to the rules, it might work. You certainly have to pay all of the hirelings, though.

Finally, doesn’t this in some way fix crafting?

I think crafting works as it is. Though, D&D is not meant to handle "mass crafting" just like it's not meant to handle "mass combat."