Crashing the game: When the DM doesn't expect resistance

[Haffrung Helleyes]

I agree

With those in the thread who say you did nothing wrong.

In fact, you probably taught the novice DM a valuable lesson. He got to see the consequences of heavyhanded railroading in his very first session, instead of long after he'd developed a bunch of bad DMing habits.

It's good that the situation was so cut and dried (you being a sorcerer in a society where your magic is outlawed, all paladin soldier squad teleporting into the middle of the swamp right next to you, etc). By the DM's own rules, you faced execution, due to your character class. Yet you were playing a character class that he insisted on being present in the game. It's like he wanted to DM Paranoia.

Your character did the only thing that was reasonable for him to do, so it's going to be difficult for the DM to accuse you of being obstructionist.


Ken

 

[Lela]

I'd have to agree with the idea of a capture start as being a great plot element and most DMs want it. It's in movies, books, games, TV, etc. Lois Lane spends half her life tied to a chair and Batman often arranges to get caught.

That's why when/if I want to play a "capture" game, I start the campaign or scenario that way; I explain ahead of time "out of game" how it happened, and that the PCs will have a chance to get out of it SOON. I never try to actually force submission from PCs. It doesn't work.

This was my thought too. Starting a group off in a prison cell (or adjoining cells) can definitely get around the whole, "Well, you're all in the Red Dragon Inn. . ." problem. Characters who know each other know each other. Characters that don't don't. Everyone will work together anyway.

As for whether you should have gone with it, I'm indifferent. I think you handled it well and, as a DM, I probably would have had the Paladins do subdual damage or choose to knock you unconscious. Then see if the PCs can pull off some nice tactics and win.

I also think there's nothing wrong with humoring a DM in a one-shot game. Sure, you might not enjoy it as much but you can usually throw yourself into it.

I'm with everyone else on this last bit though. What happened next? How did the other players react? Did the DM recover well after his initial shock?

 

[Mark]

Rookie (DM) mistake. Better to start that sort of game with everyone in custody, at the point where making decisions can mean something and need not be disallowed or bring the game to a screeching halt.

 

[ourchair]

You could have just rolled with it considering that it was his first time out, not just as a DM but as a tabletop role player, then after the game you could have given him a few pointers for his next one, perhaps.

I say this as a completely new DM who has more than once, almost set himself up into a situation like this while writing up a session plan, but:

You made the right call.

As much as it sucks, it would've been the only way he'd learn.

And not in an "I'll learn ya," sense, but in the sense that 'giving a few pointers' rarely goes over as well or as easy as it theoretically sounds it would.

 

[BenBrown]

As much as it sucks, it would've been the only way he'd learn.

And not in an "I'll learn ya," sense, but in the sense that 'giving a few pointers' rarely goes over as well or as easy as it theoretically sounds it would.

I don't think this is necessarily the case. Perhaps pointers wouldn't have helped, but it's worth trying. Blowing up the game has a chance of driving the DM away from the hobby entirely. These things are fraught with peril either way. Anyway, there's a way to word this so that you get the point across without bringing the game to a screeching halt.

e.g. "I'll go along with it this time, but this really isn't the way to run things. You've asked that I play a mage, and then are attempting to have me arrested for being a mage. While I understand that this is the way you've envisioned things, put yourself in this characters' shoes. If you know that you're very likely going to be executed if you go with these guys, wouldn't you try your best to get away, even if it means attacking them.

"I know things like this happen in stories and even in console games, but those are different media. In stories you're a passive participant, and in console games you aren't actually given a choice. Part of what's interesting about RPGs is that you do always have a choice. If the scenario requires that the PCs be behind bars, start with them there, and don't force a capture.

"As I said, I'll go along with it this time, since I really don't want to break the game completely, but this is generally considered bad form, and someone, eventually, isn't going to go along. But let's play. Okay, we get captured. What happens next?"

 

[Dausuul]

You should've followed the GM's plot.

Or not.

It's good player form to bite when presented with a plot hook, but the DM's side of that contract is to present the plot hook openly, without abusing or threatening the PCs. This was not an acceptable way to present a plot hook--in fact, it wasn't even clear at the time that it was a hook--and the players were entirely justified in rejecting it.

Now, with the DM being a newbie, this is a good place to call time-out and explain some basic principles (like, "never ever expect PCs to meekly submit to being captured"). But I don't think the burden is on the player to just go along.

(Or were you being sarcastic? It's so hard to tell on the Intarwebz.)

 

[amerigoV]

Now is a good time to send your novice DM to ENWorld to read the "why PCs never surrender" thread that is still running strong.

 

[FireLance]

I have almost the exact opposite story.

I was playing a Lawful Good paladin PC (in 3E) and the DM had some reason or the other for the entire party to be arrested and put on trial. (Disclaimer: details are fuzzy. I was actually reminded of this incident by someone in my regular gaming group a couple of weeks ago. Apparently, it was a lot more memorable for them than it was for me.)

The DM was expecting the party to put up a fight (he told us later) and had carefully prepared plans to take down every single party member.

Unfortunately for him, my PC derailed all those plans by saying something along the lines of, "Well, they are duly appointed representatives of legitimate authority and I trust the legal system to ensure that justice will be done. We surrender and go along quietly."

It appears that the DM (who was not one of my regular gaming group) had no idea that this was the way I usually play paladins.

 

[Wolf1066]

My players surrendered in Saturday's game. Mind you they were facing police armed with shotguns and SMGs - either of which would go through the PCs' armour like a hot knife through butter - and none of the characters had any especial need to fear a confrontation with the police. From their POV, it was better to co-operate, allow themselves to be frisked and talk their way out of it rather than initiate hostilities against better-armed, heavier-armoured opponents who also had the law of the land (and its considerable resources) on their side.

When I set up the encounter, I had already factored in the variables and was pretty sure the team would just put up their hands and say "wot's goin' on 'ere, guvnor? I di'n't do nuffin'."

I would not have pulled that tactic if one of the players was wanted for murder - (s)he might just decide that any chance of escape was better than being caught. That would almost certainly result in a TPK.

If I were in the situation of the OP where my character was of a group being officially persecuted and exterminated and a bunch of armed soldiers turned up to arrest the party for no apparent reason, my character would have done pretty much the same - possibly without the intimidation attempt or any warning.

I'd also expect the same from my players in that situation.

 

[Wolf1066]

Unfortunately for him, my PC derailed all those plans by saying something along the lines of, "Well, they are duly appointed representatives of legitimate authority and I trust the legal system to ensure that justice will be done. We surrender and go along quietly."

You must spread some Experience Points around before giving it to FireLance again.

Fantastic. Classic stuff. I've had a few of my carefully worked out contingency plans go right out the window with players surprisingly going along with the NPCs without argument so I've got an idea of how your DM must have felt.