Sword of Spirit
Legend
[Edit: I've decided this solution isn't going to work for me, but it helped inspire a better one I'm really excited about, described in my next post in the thread]
I like the fighter in A5e. It‘s cool.
But now that I’ve reviewed all the classes more thoroughly, I think it feels a little underwhelming. And while I haven‘t finished doing the math, my intuition tells me its combat power is less than an O5e fighter (usually A5e classes have about equivalent combat power plus increased combat flexibility and the added benefits of social and exploration pillar features).
When it comes to flexibility, it is of course king. But it‘s in the potency—the raw oomph—where it seems to lag, and I don’t think expanded flexibility is supposed to be an appropriate trade-off for potency in general in A5e design, at least to that degree.
While the fighter gets to choose from any combat traditions, they still only get the same 2 as everyone else (plus another from a restricted list later). Unless there are some really good synergies that are enabled by being able to mix any two schools (or by the addition of a third), and there are many possible such synergies, and most people will end up with some almost by accident, I don‘t think it should count for potency. I like to look at the baseline of what you expect someone to do to role-play their character, and that is to take the maneuvers that fit their concept, not to hunt for super-synergies.
And to take it to the extreme for analysis, even if every fighter knew all combat traditions and all maneuvers (supreme flexibility in an individual character), they are still limited by their Exertion. They would be like a caster that knew or had prepared every spell in the game. Yes, it would provide a power boost, but it is primarily a flexibility rather than oomph power boost.
Other A5e martial classes get almost as many Exertion points (more for Adept), and they have class specific ways of boosting their oomph in addition to that. Fighter relies on Maneuver Specialization (and therefore only derives this benefit when using their smaller list of specialized maneuvers) and Fighting Style (which is important within A5e, but doesn‘t affect power relative to O5e) to get more potency.
An idea I had was that if fighters can reduce the Exertion cost on their specialized maneuvers that normally cost 1, dropping them to have no exertion cost, that might take care of the issue (or at least most of it). Yes, that means every fighter will likely specialize in a 1 exertion maneuver that they can use at-will to add +2 damage to all their attacks, except when they are using another maneuver to attempt something more specific. When it comes to A5e classes, some of the others have some pretty nice damage boosts compared to their O5e versions, so this seems like it might just be bringing fighters up to par. Compared to an O5e fighter, their two bonus ASI/feats could grant +4 to their attack stat, which would give them not only +2 damage on all their attacks, but +2 attack bonus, +2 saves, +2 ability checks, etc. It‘s not an exact comparison, because in either edition once you get your stat to 20 you are done. But I think it does illustrate the value of those extra feats, and I think we are in the same ballpark of power.
That would basically mean that, compared to O5e, the A5e fighter’s remaining maneuver sauce (after subtracting out their free 0 exertion maneuver’s effects as roughly comparable to 2 ASIs) benefits needs to grant them equivalent pitency to the combination of Action Surge and Second Wind. I know there are fun and interesting ways to approximate that sort of build (and once you hit 20th level there is a synergy that I found that can let you get 4 extra attacks for 2 Exertion if you built precisely for it), but this is where I haven’t actually done the math to see if it checks out.
From examining the other classes, one thing I do know is flexibility to choose options other than attempting to emulate Action Surge and Second Wind—or even flexibility to take options that let you emulate those and still take other options that let you do other things instead (as long as you only have enough Exertion for one or the other during any specific short rest)—should not require a trade-off in reduced potency. Other A5e classes regularly have multiple different ways (that you only have to choose each usage, not when you gain the features) to use a feature where O5e would only give you one. That level of flexibility is part of the Level Up experience, and isn‘t a considered a potency boost.
So all of that is just to get you into my head space for this crazy idea for a house rule to make fighters feel like they are fitting more equitably with the other A5e classes and their O5e counterpart.
What do you all think? Are there issues I’m not foreseeing? Is my estimation of this house rule’s effects being roughly equivalent to 2 ASIs way off? Does the math on there remaining maneuver potency blow Action Surge and Second Wind out of the water, leaving less room than 2 ASIs to work with?
I like the fighter in A5e. It‘s cool.
But now that I’ve reviewed all the classes more thoroughly, I think it feels a little underwhelming. And while I haven‘t finished doing the math, my intuition tells me its combat power is less than an O5e fighter (usually A5e classes have about equivalent combat power plus increased combat flexibility and the added benefits of social and exploration pillar features).
When it comes to flexibility, it is of course king. But it‘s in the potency—the raw oomph—where it seems to lag, and I don’t think expanded flexibility is supposed to be an appropriate trade-off for potency in general in A5e design, at least to that degree.
While the fighter gets to choose from any combat traditions, they still only get the same 2 as everyone else (plus another from a restricted list later). Unless there are some really good synergies that are enabled by being able to mix any two schools (or by the addition of a third), and there are many possible such synergies, and most people will end up with some almost by accident, I don‘t think it should count for potency. I like to look at the baseline of what you expect someone to do to role-play their character, and that is to take the maneuvers that fit their concept, not to hunt for super-synergies.
And to take it to the extreme for analysis, even if every fighter knew all combat traditions and all maneuvers (supreme flexibility in an individual character), they are still limited by their Exertion. They would be like a caster that knew or had prepared every spell in the game. Yes, it would provide a power boost, but it is primarily a flexibility rather than oomph power boost.
Other A5e martial classes get almost as many Exertion points (more for Adept), and they have class specific ways of boosting their oomph in addition to that. Fighter relies on Maneuver Specialization (and therefore only derives this benefit when using their smaller list of specialized maneuvers) and Fighting Style (which is important within A5e, but doesn‘t affect power relative to O5e) to get more potency.
An idea I had was that if fighters can reduce the Exertion cost on their specialized maneuvers that normally cost 1, dropping them to have no exertion cost, that might take care of the issue (or at least most of it). Yes, that means every fighter will likely specialize in a 1 exertion maneuver that they can use at-will to add +2 damage to all their attacks, except when they are using another maneuver to attempt something more specific. When it comes to A5e classes, some of the others have some pretty nice damage boosts compared to their O5e versions, so this seems like it might just be bringing fighters up to par. Compared to an O5e fighter, their two bonus ASI/feats could grant +4 to their attack stat, which would give them not only +2 damage on all their attacks, but +2 attack bonus, +2 saves, +2 ability checks, etc. It‘s not an exact comparison, because in either edition once you get your stat to 20 you are done. But I think it does illustrate the value of those extra feats, and I think we are in the same ballpark of power.
That would basically mean that, compared to O5e, the A5e fighter’s remaining maneuver sauce (after subtracting out their free 0 exertion maneuver’s effects as roughly comparable to 2 ASIs) benefits needs to grant them equivalent pitency to the combination of Action Surge and Second Wind. I know there are fun and interesting ways to approximate that sort of build (and once you hit 20th level there is a synergy that I found that can let you get 4 extra attacks for 2 Exertion if you built precisely for it), but this is where I haven’t actually done the math to see if it checks out.
From examining the other classes, one thing I do know is flexibility to choose options other than attempting to emulate Action Surge and Second Wind—or even flexibility to take options that let you emulate those and still take other options that let you do other things instead (as long as you only have enough Exertion for one or the other during any specific short rest)—should not require a trade-off in reduced potency. Other A5e classes regularly have multiple different ways (that you only have to choose each usage, not when you gain the features) to use a feature where O5e would only give you one. That level of flexibility is part of the Level Up experience, and isn‘t a considered a potency boost.
So all of that is just to get you into my head space for this crazy idea for a house rule to make fighters feel like they are fitting more equitably with the other A5e classes and their O5e counterpart.
What do you all think? Are there issues I’m not foreseeing? Is my estimation of this house rule’s effects being roughly equivalent to 2 ASIs way off? Does the math on there remaining maneuver potency blow Action Surge and Second Wind out of the water, leaving less room than 2 ASIs to work with?
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