D&D 5E Crazy idea: 2nd ed multiclassing in 5e

[dagger]

I dont think 3 classes is something that needs to be balanced, you will be so far behind the single classed characters.

Two classes? Hmmm, I need to look at the EXP numbers.

For 5e I DO like race restrictions (and think they would be fine) when it comes to 1e/2e style multiclassing though, but not level limits (for 5e).

I dont have a problem with level limits in 1e/2e, and we always used them as a soft cap anyway. Meaning, depending on the DM/Campaign you could use a divine wish, quest, or double the amount of XP needed to level.

 

[JonnyP71]

I dont have a problem with level limits in 1e/2e, and we always used them as a soft cap anyway. Meaning, depending on the DM/Campaign you could use a divine wish, quest, or double the amount of XP needed to level.

Exactly!

The level caps worked just fine in 1e/2e. There was no expectation of ever reaching them for most characters! They were linked to stats, eg an Elven Fighter/Mage could go further if they had higher Strength/Intelligence. But using the UA amendments, even with pretty poor Strength and Intelligence an elf could reach level 5 Fighter/10 Mage - which was pretty damn powerful!

 

[Ancalagon]

I. My usual rule of thumb for proposal is the "crazy rule," as in, "Would a player have to be crazy to turn this down?" And my answer to your initial proposal is yes- it is insanely overpowered.

So in other words, the old-school multi-classing was insanely overpowered? Just to be sure we understand each other.

 

[guachi]

In my attempt at a recreation of race-as-class for elves, I went with 2.5x XP to level up one level each of fighter and wizard. I thought it worked well but the one player with an elf thought it was too much hassle and went back to Eldritch Knight so I don't have much play testing past level three.

 

[Lanefan]

But using the UA amendments ... was pretty damn powerful!

Yeah, for 30+ years this has been said about a great many things in the 1e UA.

Not EGG's best moment, that book.

 

[JonnyP71]

Firstly, way to edit a quote to completely change the main point.

Taken as a whole no, UA had its problems. DMs had to be selective as to which parts they used for their campaign.

But the adjustments it made to multiclassing were absolutely fine.

 

[lowkey13]

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[dagger]

As mentioned, we had and still have soft level caps in our 1e/2e game and it has never been an issue.

 

[Ancalagon]

I don't think we do understand each other.

Old-school multiclassing (here, using your example, based on demi-humans) wouldn't be "insanely overpowered" unless you removed all the restrictions.

So going back to 1e, for example, Gygax made it human-centric. Which is why the demi-humans all had level limits (other than a few counter-example, such as, for exmaple, thief), some of which were absurdly low. But yes, if you were to remove all level limits, and just have them advance at "level-1" then a player would have been crazy back then not to take advantage of it.

But this is comparing apples to oranges. The 1e "system" for multiclassing for humans was different. And these systems don't work for 5e for several reasons.

1. Classes are different in 5e. Even if you remove archetype abilities, the vast majority of player power in 5e comes from class abilities. That wasn't the case in 1e. In 1e, you had some class abilities, but you got most of your "power" and customization through magic items.

2. 5e already has a robust (if optional) multiclassing system that works, and is much less powerful than what you propose.

3. Another gatekeeping function in 1e was that classes were restricted by race as well, so many combinations just weren't possible; this type of "gestalt" multiclassing couldn't happen.

I'm not saying that you can't have your own fun- I mean, seriously, try it! But your initial suggestion is, IMO, immensely overpowered.

But those restrictions were awful and didn't work. Partially because the class restrictions did nothing to limit power: racial multiclass selection was usually classes that they were naturally good at, which makes a lot of sense I suppose, but didn't hold them back. I'm a dwarf and one of my multi-classes has to be fighter? Woot.

The level restrictions are also terrible because they did nothing to hinder at mid levels... at level 5-10, there was no effective drawback.

Edited for clarity

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[lowkey13]

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