Created Ooze boss would like some feed back on it thoughts critiscims welcomed

Nightbeat84

Explorer
Little backstory on why i created this boss monster i am currently running Out of the Abyss campaign and my party is now facing the Ooze onslaught about occur in Blingdenstone. The big bad is the pudding king and i found hes stat block underwhelming and anti climatic. There is a big build up to reach this point so i wanted a more memorable fight. There are no boss monster in the ooze category. Also he suppose to be like an emissary of the demon lord Juiblex. So i created this guy my party is currently lv 8.
Edit. So here is version 2.0 of Garos. Also this model was created by the very talented CometLord i got it as a patreon reward and he also has a store online to purchase the files so shout out to him. Comet Lord Miniatures
 

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ad_hoc

Hero
Garos is immune to Slashing but does not split. I would caution against making a major enemy immune to such a staple damage type.

312 is a lot of HP. And then there is the Regeneration. This fight is going to be a slog.

Magic Resistance plus at will Blur (and able to cast a spell along with 2 attacks) makes him hard to hurt.

Garos has up to 5 attacks/round which deal 36 damage each plus a spell plus summoning.

How are you arriving at CR 12? This looks to be much higher than that.
 

ad_hoc

Hero
Looking at pg 274 of the DMG:

Garos has a Defensive CR rating of about 22.
Garos has an Offensive CR of about 24.

So that puts Garos at about CR 23.

(Which I think is a bit on the conservative side given not all abilities were accounted for in that calculation)
 

Coroc

Hero
Little backstory on why i created this boss monster i am currently running Out of the Abyss campaign and my party is now facing the Ooze onslaught about occur in Blingdenstone. The big bad is the pudding king and i found hes stat block underwhelming and anti climatic. There is a big build up to reach this point so i wanted a more memorable fight. There are no boss monster in the ooze category. Also he suppose to be like an emissary of the demon lord Juiblex. So i created this guy my party is currently lv 8.View attachment 118806
Very nice.

Its CR is a bit low though, although you first think it be a bit squishy bec. of AC14, the whole list of immunities and resistances plus its dissolving attacks make it highly dangerous. I suggest CR15-16 for it.

You can use this one as a solo mob.
I suggest that magic weapons and armor are not afflicted by its destructive attacks.

You should do the following also: Lower its AC to 10 but up its HP to 800-1000 or so.
Make the party hit with every melee or ranged weapon attack and watch their horror as the thing still does not get down :p.

Also alter darkvision to tremorsense, it has no vision in a common way. That would also make it quite immune to sneak attacks.

Also give it a weakness, I suggest cold.

Edit: also leave out the psionic/spell attacks, give it the possibility to communicate psionically if you want RP around it. A thing like this does not need magic to enhance its attack capabilities.
 

Nightbeat84

Explorer
Looking at pg 274 of the DMG:

Garos has a Defensive CR rating of about 22.
Garos has an Offensive CR of about 24.

So that puts Garos at about CR 23.

(Which I think is a bit on the conservative side given not all abilities were accounted for in that calculation)
I should have mention the web based program that I use when you put he CR up higher hes profiancy goes up which I dint want. So you are correct he is definitely not a cr 12 monster also the minions will only have 1 hp i pilfer the minion rule from 4th edition. They will have all there stats but only require 1 hit to kill them. Nust for action economy reason and to be annoying to spell casters in the back row
 

J-H

Villager
Are magic items immune to the dissolving effect? Because there's otherwise nearly no way for anyone to melee this guy down, and he's immune to most forms of spell damage.

Unless there was something to defend, I would argue at the table for hitting him with Slow then simply running away.

Does it speak? Interact with the party? Or is it just a big numbers-slog of HP to work through with no personality or character? What's going to make this fight interesting or memorable besides "Ugh, it was an ooze+rust monster with a ton of HP and we lost all our stuff."?
 

Nightbeat84

Explorer
Garos is immune to Slashing but does not split. I would caution against making a major enemy immune to such a staple damage type.

312 is a lot of HP. And then there is the Regeneration. This fight is going to be a slog.

Magic Resistance plus at will Blur (and able to cast a spell along with 2 attacks) makes him hard to hurt.

Garos has up to 5 attacks/round which deal 36 damage each plus a spell plus summoning.

How are you arriving at CR 12? This looks to be much higher than that.
Hmm ya I dint understand the slashing immunity thing in the ooze stat block like black pudding until now so I shall remove it. Thank you for that. The acid damage is 1 damage dice h
Garos is immune to Slashing but does not split. I would caution against making a major enemy immune to such a staple damage type.

312 is a lot of HP. And then there is the Regeneration. This fight is going to be a slog.

Magic Resistance plus at will Blur (and able to cast a spell along with 2 attacks) makes him hard to hurt.

Garos has up to 5 attacks/round which deal 36 damage each plus a spell plus summoning.

How are you arriving at CR 12? This looks to be much higher than that.
I did not understand about why other oozes had immunity to slashing until now thank you lol. You turn a light on my head I will definitely remove that immunity. Also I did some calculations my players on average can do 133 damage a round and I wanted him to last longer then 3 rounds of combat so that's what the regeneration and higher health is for. I am aware that a couple of bad rolls can definitely affect the damage output and what not so as any DM you can use monsters health as a gauge by raising or lowering if things are going terrible for your players. The blur spell was an after though which I think I will remove and put in more Illusion magic maybe or remove magic all together. The acid damage is 1 damage die higher then a black pudding but maybe I should lower it back to 4d8 maybe?
 

Iry

Adventurer
Seems well written, but I'm concerned that the enemy is just a pile of HP. Nothing really tricksy or interesting except 3 Compulsions and a Project Image. I would like to see something like...

Gush: Garos expels a sickening green fluid in a 20 foot radius. Anyone that attempts to move across the fluid must make a DC14 Acrobatics check or slide along the fluid to the opposite end. Recharge 5-6.
 

Nightbeat84

Explorer
Are magic items immune to the dissolving effect? Because there's otherwise nearly no way for anyone to melee this guy down, and he's immune to most forms of spell damage.

Unless there was something to defend, I would argue at the table for hitting him with Slow then simply running away.

Does it speak? Interact with the party? Or is it just a big numbers-slog of HP to work through with no personality or character? What's going to make this fight interesting or memorable besides "Ugh, it was an ooze+rust monster with a ton of HP and we lost all our stuff."?
Ya I plan on RP'ing with him. The party did complete a quest that gained them some oil to coat there arms and armor to resist the corrosive nature of oozes and I ruled that magic items would be affected by it. I have had them fight oozes that did affect there stuff as a method of communicating that they should find a way to protect themselves. I'm strong believer that with some strong foreshowing that the party should prepare to counter powerful effects but if they choose to ignore it and charge head long into danger there is repercussions to there actions and there is always the option to retreat in the face of a great danger that they where ill prepared to face. Is that to harsh? I don't think so. I set up encounters for the story not balanced that the party thinks that every fight they are going to win. that's my DM'ing style. I still consider myself noobish only been doing so for little over a 1 year now. I did give an item that can weaken the monster if they decided to use it as well I feel like I have given them options and information to prepare for the conflict ahead of time
 

Nightbeat84

Explorer
Seems well written, but I'm concerned that the enemy is just a pile of HP. Nothing really tricksy or interesting except 3 Compulsions and a Project Image. I would like to see something like...

Gush: Garos expels a sickening green fluid in a 20 foot radius. Anyone that attempts to move across the fluid must make a DC14 Acrobatics check or slide along the fluid to the opposite end. Recharge 5-6.
I might lower he's regenerate but I did some math and my party can do 133 damage on average a round. I was concerned that he would die to quick wanted to him to last longer then 3 rounds . With any monster with HP pool if it seems its becoming a Slog I can lower he's HP mid fight. I might even lower he's AC as someone suggest earlier. I do like that ability you suggested. I figured some enchantment or illusion spells could make him interesting I did not want really any attacking spells. Was looking for more mind control stuff more then anything else but that could be devastating for the party to turn one of there own against them? I do have a mini for this encounter he has 2 large hands and 2 smaller ones I wanted to figure something the smaller ones could do instead of pure damage hence the magic casting I will post a picture of the mini
 

Nightbeat84

Explorer
Very nice.

Its CR is a bit low though, although you first think it be a bit squishy bec. of AC14, the whole list of immunities and resistances plus its dissolving attacks make it highly dangerous. I suggest CR15-16 for it.

You can use this one as a solo mob.
I suggest that magic weapons and armor are not afflicted by its destructive attacks.

You should do the following also: Lower its AC to 10 but up its HP to 800-1000 or so.
Make the party hit with every melee or ranged weapon attack and watch their horror as the thing still does not get down :p.

Also alter darkvision to tremorsense, it has no vision in a common way. That would also make it quite immune to sneak attacks.

Also give it a weakness, I suggest cold.

Edit: also leave out the psionic/spell attacks, give it the possibility to communicate psionically if you want RP around it. A thing like this does not need magic to enhance its attack capabilities.
hmm I think giving it a weakness might not be a bad idea also I'm thinking of removing some of its statues immunities such as stunned, charmed and blinded. Some parts of the model I have painted more eyes on it so maybe give it advantage vs being blinded on the save?
 

Nightbeat84

Explorer
If anyone has any ideas based on the model I posted on what to do with he's smaller hands or cool abilities vs just giving him magic which looking back is the easiest way to more layers but just doing abilities seems more memorable then jus casting spells
Thank you in advance
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
If anyone has any ideas based on the model I posted on what to do with he's smaller hands or cool abilities vs just giving him magic which looking back is the easiest way to more layers but just doing abilities seems more memorable then jus casting spells
Thank you in advance
Your PCs are around level 12 I'm assuming? If this is the boss I would say that the HP you've got is the Max HP not average - (I always max the HP of my bosses to give them staying power to be a real threat).

The hands look like they're wanting to grab PCs so I would replace your Slam attack with a "Grasping Hand" attack that can grab a PC and grapple them inflicting acid damage on a successful attack (and inflicting acid damage on the start of the PCs turn) Max of 2 PCs can be grappled in this way. The Ooze can also "Stuff" a grappled creature into its "stomach" freeing up a hand to grasp another PC.

But, as Ad Hoc notes, really check your numbers to make sure this thing is going to deliver the threat level you desire.

I would also suggest that this creature emerges from the dead remains of the Pudding King.

As far as Blingdenstone goes I was sorely disappointed that the cool iridescent palace thing had absolutely nothing of interest in it. When I ran it, I moved the Pudding King's throne room into the iridescent sphere palace - much more memorable.
 

ad_hoc

Hero
I should have mention the web based program that I use when you put he CR up higher hes profiancy goes up which I dint want. So you are correct he is definitely not a cr 12 monster also the minions will only have 1 hp i pilfer the minion rule from 4th edition. They will have all there stats but only require 1 hit to kill them. Nust for action economy reason and to be annoying to spell casters in the back row
I didn't even factor the minions into the CR 23 calculation.

Garos is going to destroy the party. He's going to take out 2 PCs/round. His average damage is 200/rd.

How are they dealing an average of 133dmg/rd? Keep in mind by the time they fight him they're going to have faced a few fights at least. And then even if a party of level 8 characters unloads onto a monster they're still going to miss sometimes (and Garos has magic resistance and legendary resistance too).

I also suggest against altering the difficulty of things as you go too. If you're going to do that you don't even really need stats. You're basically writing a story. Have a monster appear as a threat and then just as the monster is about to kill the PCs have it die. It seems like a good way to make things exciting but I think it cheapens the game. The PCs should win or lose on their own merits.
 

dave2008

Legend
This thing is seriously tough for 8th level PCs. It has high HP + regeneration + a ton of resistances and immunities. Spell casters are basically screwed and martials don't fair much better. On the flip side, it is dishing out at least 180 HP of damage per round. Not sure how many PCs you've got, but if this thing is played straight up I think it is going to mow through your group. Maybe they can out run it?

Personally, unless you are looking for a TPK or you want them to run away, this ooze is to much for 8th lvl group. Maybe a range heavy group with magic weapons could take it on.
 
First off, I love your model. That thing is utterly terrifying. Bravo!

@ad_hoc is totally right. This is too strong for an 8th-level party. Frankly, you took a somewhat comical CR 4 monster and you turned it into something rivaling the power of Jubilex itself! I strongly recommend you reduce this monster's power, both defensively and offensively, such that its CR is about 12 or 13. That should give you the tense dramatic fight feel you're aiming for without obliterating the PCs.

I'm going to run the numbers to evaluate its approximate Challenge Rating using DMG page 274, assuming you're removing the slashing damage immunity, and that your target CR is in the 11-16 range (a serious threat to your 8th level party, but not impossible)...

Defensive CR 24
Effective HP = ((312 + (3 * 20) regen )) * 1.25 resistances + (3 * 30) legendary resistances = 555
Effective AC = 14 + 2 saves + 2 magic resist = 18

555 effective HP puts it at defensive CR 24, and 18 effective AC is about right.

Note: I did not account for it using the Blur spell nor the damage-reducing aspect of Corrosive Form, which could conceivably boost its AC by maybe another 2-4, though accounting for that in the maths is more complicated than I had energy for. However, the damage resistance multiplier for a CR 24 should be negligible (i.e. x1), making its effective HP more like 462, which would make its defensive CR more like 22. With monster maths, you can really exhaust yourself trying to figure this out, so I just called these two competing factors a wash. If your 8th-level party is extremely well-equipped with magic weapons, then you could assume your current version of Garos is more like a total CR 20 creature. Still way overpowered.

Offensive CR 20
DPR = 5 lair action (green slime, single-round damage) + (2 * 36) two slams + 10 mind thrust + (2 * 14) two legendary actions: slams + (2 * 4) corrosive form = 123
Effective Attack = +10 +1 corrosive aspect of its slam reducing AC = +11

123 damage puts it at offensive CR 20, and its attack bonus is about right for that CR.

Total CR 22
Taking the average = (24 + 20) / 2 = 22

By way of comparison, Jubilex is CR 23.
 

Nightbeat84

Explorer
Your PCs are around level 12 I'm assuming? If this is the boss I would say that the HP you've got is the Max HP not average - (I always max the HP of my bosses to give them staying power to be a real threat).

The hands look like they're wanting to grab PCs so I would replace your Slam attack with a "Grasping Hand" attack that can grab a PC and grapple them inflicting acid damage on a successful attack (and inflicting acid damage on the start of the PCs turn) Max of 2 PCs can be grappled in this way. The Ooze can also "Stuff" a grappled creature into its "stomach" freeing up a hand to grasp another PC.

But, as Ad Hoc notes, really check your numbers to make sure this thing is going to deliver the threat level you desire.

I would also suggest that this creature emerges from the dead remains of the Pudding King.

As far as Blingdenstone goes I was sorely disappointed that the cool iridescent palace thing had absolutely nothing of interest in it. When I ran it, I moved the Pudding King's throne room into the iridescent sphere palace - much more memorable.
They are currently level 8. I do plan to have the pudding king in he's gnome form initially until a PC hits him and have him fall dead then as the PC's think they have defeated him he's true form emerges from the gnome body and then resume combat just to mess with them. Grasping Hand attack sounds good. Would the attack do some bludgeon damage or just a straight grab and stuff k
First off, I love your model. That thing is utterly terrifying. Bravo!

@ad_hoc is totally right. This is too strong for an 8th-level party. Frankly, you took a somewhat comical CR 4 monster and you turned it into something rivaling the power of Jubilex itself! I strongly recommend you reduce this monster's power, both defensively and offensively, such that its CR is about 12 or 13. That should give you the tense dramatic fight feel you're aiming for without obliterating the PCs.

I'm going to run the numbers to evaluate its approximate Challenge Rating using DMG page 274, assuming you're removing the slashing damage immunity, and that your target CR is in the 11-16 range (a serious threat to your 8th level party, but not impossible)...

Defensive CR 24
Effective HP = ((312 + (3 * 20) regen )) * 1.25 resistances + (3 * 30) legendary resistances = 555
Effective AC = 14 + 2 saves + 2 magic resist = 18

555 effective HP puts it at defensive CR 24, and 18 effective AC is about right.

Note: I did not account for it using the Blur spell nor the damage-reducing aspect of Corrosive Form, which could conceivably boost its AC by maybe another 2-4, though accounting for that in the maths is more complicated than I had energy for. However, the damage resistance multiplier for a CR 24 should be negligible (i.e. x1), making its effective HP more like 462, which would make its defensive CR more like 22. With monster maths, you can really exhaust yourself trying to figure this out, so I just called these two competing factors a wash. If your 8th-level party is extremely well-equipped with magic weapons, then you could assume your current version of Garos is more like a total CR 20 creature. Still way overpowered.

Offensive CR 20
DPR = 5 lair action (green slime, single-round damage) + (2 * 36) two slams + 10 mind thrust + (2 * 14) two legendary actions: slams + (2 * 4) corrosive form = 123
Effective Attack = +10 +1 corrosive aspect of its slam reducing AC = +11

123 damage puts it at offensive CR 20, and its attack bonus is about right for that CR.

Total CR 22
Taking the average = (24 + 20) / 2 = 22

By way of comparison, Jubilex is CR 23.
The party all have magical +1 and the paladin has +2 sun blade from the adventure. They are also have oil for there equipment to resist the melting of there stuff. Now with all the information that you just plugged in I'm definitely going to lower the damage and alternative was going to offer them acid resistant potions I wasn't sure at first?
 

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