Creating a govement based on D&D reality

I think it also depends greatly on the mindset of the character. If a character took up adventuring out of wanderlust or a desire to live an exciting life, chances are the idea of settling down and ruling a nation isn't going to appeal to him, even if he were capable of doing so.

On the other hand, once you get to a certain level, very little in the world exists that can challenge you. That, and ridiculous levels of money with nothing to spend it on, can motivate many characters to hang up their hauberks and settle down into the nice, quiet life of a politician (relatively-speaking, of course). After all, when you can decimate an entire army single-handedly, the real challenge is to solve your problems without doing so.
 

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I'm confused... don't all retired adventurers settle down to run inns and taverns?

But seriously, I agree with Aeric. Some characters just don't want the hassle of ruling. In the real world, I know people who pass up promotions because they don't want more responsibility; I can easily see the same for some adventurers.
 

I think the Conan template for adventurers ruling silly--much more common would be the Kurtz model from Apocalypse now. Generally, they don't have the skills to wield that sort of power, only by the sword and wand. Pretty much only by taking, not by persuasion. Its a good thing they made Diplomacy a skill, since, let's be realistic, the average player doesn't have a rat's iota of how to persuade, cajole or outsmart.

Someone said that high level characters would be the most powerful force--I have serious doubts about that, even in most fantasy worlds, Nature is itself a very powerful force.
 

Let us consider the sterotypical fantasy landscape. There once was a great and powerful empire that fell. Its strong hold have now become lairs for monsters, the evils it once kept pushed to the borders is moved in between the reamining centers of civilization. What was once a unified whole (or at least 2 or 3 unified wholes) becomes a patchwork of small kingdoms.

Enter adventurers.

A few generations of evil parties taking over kingdoms and trying to forge new empires, falling to infighting or good adventurers. A few kingdoms where adventuring clerics or paladins establish theocracies with or without the will of the people, a few mageocracies here and there, etc. This can go on for centuries, as long as wealth is won and lost and monsters are allowed to breed.

Ultimatelly, however, I think an equilibrium would be reached. An oligarcical meritocracy would place power in the hands of a semi-democratic large body of adventurers under a very simple set of guidelines. Basically the goverment runs on the basis of a huge adventuring party model. Every few years the group meets (or all who wish to do so) and places someone(s) in charge based on their ability to keep the inns open, the roads paved, and everything running smoothly. "Its your turn to stay at home and take care of this stuff so the rest of us don't have to worry about it." That person or persons is the goverment. They stay in line because they know that no matter how powerful they are, or how much support they could get, a significant minority in the group could make things so difficult that seizing ultimate power isn't worth the effort. Overt corruption isn't worth the effort as there are enough good adventurers to disrupt any plans. The good guys can't drive out all the evil adventurers for the same reason. The order of the day is "Leave me alone, I will leave you alone."

Meanwhile the commoners, merchants, and others in the land are kept relativelly safe and the economy is kept flowing. Probablly as happy or happier than under other forms of government. Taxes are, usually, lighter. Most of the cities and farmlands are safer. If their are major disasters, which are rare, good adventurers help restore the area with magic and gold. If people want to be part of the ruling class all they have to do is go out and earn their place through strength of arm, mind, will, or personality.

However, elaborate rules about dealing w/monsterous humanoids and other creatures also develop. They don't destroy them all, they want their to be more in a few years or the system is doomed. Things are allowed to escape for the good of society. Preserves, goblinoid reservations, are established - knowing that they will overbreed and get out and have to be dealt with. Rules of exploration, claim staking, etc are the highest laws in the land. "Poaching" is the worst crime of all. Oh, and wealth is not inherited. It must be earned. But that doesn't mean the children of adventurers don't have a headstart on things.

Sure adventurers want wealth and power. But what is the power of a crown compared to Epic level spells or swords and armor that let you fight dragons single handedly. I think traditional goverment, for the aventurer, becomes a neccesary evil. Something that has to be handled so they can get on with life.

Now, certainly it may not work out like that, but given a significant body of adventurers on a continent I can see them working out either a totally new form of government (one which might be closer to tribal or chiefdom based societies due to the relative power and wealth of the constituants) or coming to a formal or informal arrangement to not take positions of power, being kept in check by tradition and the might of other parties.
 

Umbran said:
And that's the general pattern through human history - rulership flows from agreement, not from personal might. There is no particular reason to think it ought to be different in a D&D world - if you have high-power followers, you don't need power yourself.

This is a good point. Adventures become a necessary part of any government but don't need to be the apex. The person leading the government is not always the smartest, most poltically connected or wealthiest, but they gather those around them who are and balance thier needs and abilities.

However, rulers would need to have more personal training and lots of money spent on personal protections and enhancement. To rule effectivley you need a high diplomacy skill, a decent will save, and a high charisma. 20-24 chr is not uncommon by 12th level for sorcerers, paladins and bards. Rulers would need similar stats and skill levels to maintain control.

The differences between a D&D based world and a real one arise when the system breaks down. In the Real world coups, revolutions and the like can be supressed by miltary force, in a D&D game they can only be checked by adventuring heros. Rulers would need to keep careful tabs of adventuring groups and treat the powerful ones as another powerblock. Governments would also have a vested intrest in training and recruiting heroes rather than masses of troops.


My point in this thread is not as much about the actions of PCs - but how does everyone else behave in a world where personal advancement and power can rise from virtually nothing to that of a demigod in a short timespan.
 


The Grumpy Celt said:
I don't believe any sort of political discussion is approprate or accaptable here under the rules of these boards, if those rules are enforced.

Fantasy politics and fantasy religions can be discussed.
 

Numion said:
Fantasy politics and fantasy religions can be discussed.

It's still a bad idea and should be stopped sooner rather than later. Consider this a second protest and second request that this thread be nailed closed.
 

Personal power and political power are completely different things. The real world isn't ruled by martial artists, expert shots or nuclear scientists. Likewise there is no particular reason to think that in a fantasy world, personal power would translate into political power.

Power stems in a large part from wealth, while it's true that adventurers can gain vast wealth, so can merchants, bankers and land-owners. Although diplomacy and high charisma are an advantage, most adventurers don't actually have high charisma or diplomacy. A GM can choose to give xp for story awards so an NPC aristocrat may have achieved high level without ever defeating a monster.
 

The Grumpy Celt said:
It's still a bad idea and should be stopped sooner rather than later. Consider this a second protest and second request that this thread be nailed closed.

Well, take it up with the mods and stop threadcrapping.
 

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