Creating An OGC Setting

[Turanil]

I am going to work on the gods and religions (expand on what Yair proposed), plus propose two organisations: "The Lightbringers' Order" (as already outlined above) and "The Hidden" who are Elans organized into a type of Scarlet Brotherhood.

Anbyway, further work will be posted on the Wiki (I already added a few lines about the races of the continent).

 

[Nellisir]

I am going to work on the gods and religions (expand on what Yair proposed), plus propose two organisations: "The Lightbringers' Order" (as already outlined above) and "The Hidden" who are Elans organized into a type of Scarlet Brotherhood.

Anbyway, further work will be posted on the Wiki (I already added a few lines about the races of the continent).

I knew this was going to come up.

Here's the problem with design by committee. Some of what Turanil has wrought is contradictory to what I had intended/conceived (and hoped to post tonight). In one swoop we've got origins &/or homelands for maenads, dromites, and half-giants, two of which (dromites & maenads) I had thought to adapt & utilize to some degree; plus implied guidelines for the rest of the races (which are primary and presumably play a prominent role in the setting, and which are secondary, and don't).

I am...confused at this point. I don't have a problem with what Turanil wrote, it just makes the time I spent doing research & puzzling out an outline a waste. And it doesn't seem right to erase what he's written in favor of what I write, which would be vulnerable in turn to being completely overwritten.

So why should I, or anyone, participate?

This is a serious question, and one that needs to be addressed.

Cheers
Nell.

PS - if half-giants are from the far north, you might want to switch their fire resistance to cold resistance.

 

[Yair]

Here's the problem with design by committee. Some of what Turanil has wrought is contradictory to what I had intended/conceived (and hoped to post tonight). In one swoop we've got origins &/or homelands for maenads, dromites, and half-giants, two of which (dromites & maenads) I had thought to adapt & utilize to some degree; plus implied guidelines for the rest of the races (which are primary and presumably play a prominent role in the setting, and which are secondary, and don't).

I am...confused at this point. I don't have a problem with what Turanil wrote, it just makes the time I spent doing research & puzzling out an outline a waste. And it doesn't seem right to erase what he's written in favor of what I write, which would be vulnerable in turn to being completely overwritten.

So why should I, or anyone, participate?

This is a serious question, and one that needs to be addressed.

It is, so I'll try to.

IMO, we are jumping ahead of ourselves a bit. We are, or should be, still in the brainstorming mode. Anything is apt to change, anytghing can and should be criticised and modified. Only once we've got the basics of the world set up - important things such as the rough scale of land, for example, and where the species are - can we invest a lot of time into the details. (I was suprised to have my deity accepted without much comment, for example, and am glad my pantheon was criticized.)
For this phase, I suggest using the Wiki is not the most appropriate. We need to be notified of each other's ideas and criticisms, plus having things on the wiki seems somehow more permanent to me. (I know it isn't, but it does.) I suggest largely sticking to posting things on the board, and only posting them on the wiki once a few days have passed without criticisms or a consensus was reached on what's what.

Above all, we should all be ready to accept that the stuff we post will be rejected or modified in light of other ideas. This is just the brainstorming phase. Once we peg down the essentials, we could move on to details with a big picture in mind and a lot of leeway. That's when the wiki will come in handy.

 

[Yair]

1) I'm uncomfortable with the direct analogies to existing, copyrighted, PI, non-OGC deities. Not the new deities themselves, mind you (though I haven't read all of them), but the current [this is a trademarked name] thing. It makes more sense to me to identify a bunch of fundamental divine deities (sun god, forest god, ocean god, sky god, moon god, god of magic, god of thieves) and go from there. I think the core D&D pantheon has some missing spaces anyways.

While I generally agree that the core pantheon is missing some essential parts, I believe it is essential to have widely-worshipped deities that mirror the widely-worshipped PH deities, at least mechanically. Players don't like reading (well, some don't). This way a DM could just say "well, pick a deity from the PH, I'll give you the info on it in the setting later", and ad lib a short explanation before the game commences. Makes life much easier.
I agree that Nerull, Erythnull, and other such deities are not necessary and their mechanics can be changed. Note that they largely serve different archtypes in my version, though.

The pantheon I presented is based primarily on the sun-god archetype on the one hand, and the magic-gods on the other. The sun-god is definitely one of the fundamental archetypes (which I think I managed to twist nicely), and requires an opposite (I used Nerull's stats, but can change them a bit to better fit the archtype). Classically, the sun-god would probably be Lawful and the nemesis Chaotic; I think things actually work better with a NG and NE divide.
Any pantheon in D&D requires and agricultural deity IMO, which is where my Elhonna comes in (very different archetype from the PH one). The trickster's role is played by my Erythnul, the chaotic sea god by Kord, the goddess of fate by Fharlanghan, Obad Hai remains as the Old Faith but with an elemental focus.
What I'm saying is I tried to make things fit better into the archetypes, while making the deities distinct from the PH while keeping them close enough for playing purposes. For example, Fharlanghan is still a good deity for travelers and bards.

I welcome any modifications, extensions, replacements, or other suggestions you'd want to make.

Again, I'm not saying the current gods don't work -- I'd just like to remove the obvious parallels to works we shouldn't be referencing anyways.

Actually, you are saying that, as the gods are really based on direct parellels That's perfectly alright, though.

2) "A storm is brewing on the horizon" is...awkward.

I actually thought it was cool. But I'm not a native speaker.

3) In a similar vein, "Pact of the Stone" is slightly awkward. IMO, it'd be nice to set up something that mirrors the sound of the "Alliance of Crowns": "Pact of Stone", "Pact of Jewels", or "Pact of Thrones" (my favorite) would all work.

Yes, I agree here. On all counts.

I'll try and do more later. I've got some ideas for Berin (y'all can go play on the big continent; I'll leave you alone...).

How did you figure its size?
Also, why do you think all the nations are on the southern continent? I was under the impression they were on both, especially the Pact of Thrones (hey, I like that name).

 

[Yair]

(I already added a few lines about the races of the continent).

The SRD races by environment:
Warm Plains: Halflings, Gold Dragon, Gnoll (including underground lairs with trolls)
Warm Mountains: Storm Giants (plus griffins and sea cats), red dragons, fire fiants (plus ettins)
Warm Marshes: Black dragons, rakhasha
Warm Hills: Copper dragons, hobgoblins (plus ogres and trolls), deep halflings
Warm Forests: Ettercaps, couatel, yuan-ti-clone (?), wild elf
Warm Desert: sphynxes, brass dragons, janni
Warm Aquatic: Locathah/Shaulin
Temperate Plains: goblins, tieflings, worgs, aasimir, blink dog
Temperate Mountains: dward and mountain dwarf, cloud giant (and griffons), silver dragon, giant eagles, bugbear, stone giant, gray elf
Temperate Marshes: hydta, lizardfolk
Temperate Hills: ogre, gnome, bronze dragon, hil giant, athach, orc, chimera,
Temperate Forest: green dragon, dire wolfs, grigs, unicorns, aranea, centaur, kobold, nymph, pixie, dryad, satyr, treant, giant owl, (high) elf, wood elf, forest gnome, tallfellow halfling, kobold
Temperate Desert: blue dragon, lamia, dragonne, dire bat, lammasu
Temperate Aquatic: sea cat, kraken, merfolk, triton, nixie, aquatic elf
Cold Mountains: troll, frost giant (plus ogre and winter wolf), white dragon
Cold Aquatic: Scrag troll
Cold Marsh: ogre, ettin
Cold Hills: ogre mage, ogre, orc, ettin
Cold Forest: winter wolf
Any: doppleganger, human, gargoyle (plus aquatic)

There are lots of minor races to fit in.

There are also a lot of environments to fit in, and I'm not sure where each goes.

 

[Yair]

I suggest to not flood the setting with endless races. As such, I would suggest a few primary races that are found in great numbers and have their own civilizations, then all others as secondary races found in small numbers and often as offshoot of the primary races or living among them.

Yes, but you are neglecting the myriad non-layer races in D&D.
I generally think having lots of humans and a few other races works fine for the major nations, but we need to accomodate other civilizations on the map - sometimes extensive ones. Giants, orcs, kobolds, and goblinoids, in particular - but also more rarer races that could have extensive civilizations, such as rakhashas, the fey, or so on.
In light of this, I suggest a model of overall human dominance, with pockets of other races (sometimes of considerable size).

The most ubiquitous race of the continent of Brennan.

Not Berin? Interesting.

Dwarf
The second most common race after humans. Dwarves are not only master craftsmen and artisans, but are often renown as mercenaries. They a few renown dwarven mercenary companies around selling their service to those who can afford them.

I like the mercenary angle, not sure if we want to mix it with craftmanship though.

Elf
The elves are a dwindling race, but probably the oldest. They are credited with having discovered arcane magic, and have the most elaborate culture of all.

Not sure about this, its a bit too standard.
I'm not sure how any race can be considered the oldest, especially since we never did settle on a creation myth...

Halfling
??? (could be made in Dark Sun savage halflings?)

I really don't like the Dark Sun halflings. Different just for the sake of being different IMO.
I like the usual "mixed with humans" just fine.
Another idea is to have them as the recently conquered state, making the quintessential halfling a rogue "freedom fighter".

Duergar
A dwarven offshoot of Renegade dwarves who once chose to follow an evil deity rather than the traditional Dwarven Father.

They turned to the worship of The Nameless Horror, He Who Dwells Below, of course. (Nerull)

Half-Giant
Rare individuals usually found in the North (the Slauted Isles) where they are usually called "TrollBorn".

These should be associated with warm climates or volcanos or something.

Elan
They are the result of the selective breeding and intense training of the secretive brotherhood of monks and psionic-users known as "The Hidden". Their number is unknown but probably not over a thousands.

No selective breeding please. That smacks too much like modern evolution, and we don't want to put science in our fantasy, no?

Maenad
Those humans who weren't killed during The Cataclysm (from which the Shevado desert was born) were mutated by the magical energies released. Their descendants are the Maenad.
Xeph
Nobody knows where the Xephs originally came from, except that it was probably in the far east. On both continents they are gypsies living in small travelling caravans, and they are often found as sailors on their own vessels as well. In fact they make the most travelled and reliable mariners. The most likely place to find Xephs are the islands of Haven and Tenghal.
Dromite
Insect-like people who were drawn from another plane of existence during the cataclysm that turned the souh of Brennan into the Shevado Desert a few centuries ago. They live almost exclusively in this desert in underground cities and mazes of caverns.

I have a problem with all psionic races - if psionics are a recent development related to an atempt to overthrow the gods, what are these races doing about here for the past millenia, manifesting psionic powers and stuff?
I suggest having the Dromites in the desert as you suggest, perhaps along with the half-giants. Make this the homeland of the discovery of psionics, and the birth of the not-scarlet-brotherhood and Elans.
Not sure how to fit in xephs and maenads.

Not sure about the cataclysm too. Looking at it, the desert does seem unnatural but a cataclysm? Like in Greyhawk? Not sure, I'm trying to come up with something more... original.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I think this thread is getting a bit unwieldly. Maybe we should split it up into different ones?

Maybe one about races, another about the countries and geopolitics, and another one about religion? These seem to be the major topics right now, and we can still discuss the remaining things here...

 

[Turanil]

I am aware this is community work and will let other members add their ideas and devellop them as well. I don't care that my ideas being altered. In fact I expect that all this community work should give excellent, if unexpected results.

Brainstorming. I see an advantage with brainstorming directly on the Wiki: You don't need to gather all the thread's posts and combine them, which is a tedious work. Plus, often such threads disappear into oblivion after a week or two. On the Wiki the process can go on and evolve on its own, it doesn't require someone to make the work of turning the whole thread into a coherent stuff.

Races. My suggestions were about the PC races mostly. They are also suggestions that you may not agree with and want to modify. Nellisir, if you don't agree on some point, modify it! Anyway, my main concern was to not have every race having got its own nation and kingdom, all of them of similar size, which I would find boring. Now (for example), I have no problem if someone decides to change my line about Half-giants being Northern Trollborns into having them being ofshoot of fire giants living in the Fire Mountains. Likewise (for example), you could decide to use the Xephs as the main race inhabiting the Berin continent rather than being gypsies and mariners.

On the other hand, instead of changing what one wrote entirely, I think better would be to keep some of the existing ideas when adding your own. For example, suppose you want the Xephs being the main race of Berin, where I told they were just wandering sailors and gypsies on both continents. You could now overwrite that Xephs are the main race from Berin, but that many rebels have rejected their nation and emigrated; however, since they have a hard time finding a place where settle, these rebels are now wandering gypsies on Brennan, or live on ships across the oceans.

BTW: I personally don't care for the psionic races and wouldn't have included them myself. But since they were already included on the Wiki page I elaborated on them.

 

[Yair]

-- [Pelor, archetype: sun-god] Phaeton
Phaeton, "The Waking Light" (and his Knights of the Pheonix, of the Lightbringers' Order).

-- [Elhonna, archetype: agricultural deity] Shefa
"The Ever Young".
Hetane, "The Many"
Eyni, "The Blessed", "Our Lady of Mercy"

-- [Nerull, archetype: sun-god's nemesis] Ashid
The Nameless Horror, He Who Dwells Below
Ulgoth, "The Dark One"

-- [Erythnul, archetype: the trickster] Tohu
Yarghash, "The Deceiver", "Of Lies", "The Liar"

-- [Heironeous, archetype: none really] Zedek
Valorius, "The Honor Bound",
"The Glorious", "The Supreme"

-- [Fharlanghan, archetype: goddess of fate] Nosia
Anake, "Our Lady of Fate", "The Treacherous", "Who Rules Over Gods and Men"

-- [Hextor, archetype: god-emperor] Tyrran
Tyrran. "Holy Emperor"

-- [Wee Jas, archetype: god of the afterlife, but weakened] Teham
Bedda, "The Enlightened", "Of the Final Rest"

-- [Correlon, archetype: none really] Yezura
Oberon, "The Seelie King"
Esseril, "The Wise".
Eshlahn, "The Noble"

-- [Kord, archetype: poseidon] Yama
Ulamar, "Lord of Sea"

-- [Cuthbert, archetype: Hindu caste beliefs] Nabut
"The Hammer of Justice".
Bezelon
Rakesh

-- [Obad Hai, archetype: Neopaganism]The Four Faced God
The Four Faced God

-- [Moradin, archetype: dwarf father] Asa
Mahal, "The Forger" (for artifice) OR "The Adamant" (for mercenaries)

-- [Gruumsh, archetype: horde's god] Shed
Wulfglir, "The Beast"

-- [Boccob] Kesem
<...>

-- [Vecna] Sod
"The Faceless".

-- [Garl Glittergold]
<...>

-- [Olidammara]
<...>

-- [Yondalla]
<...>[/QUOTE]

 

[Yair]

Brainstorming. I see an advantage with brainstorming directly on the Wiki: You don't need to gather all the thread's posts and combine them, which is a tedious work. Plus, often such threads disappear into oblivion after a week or two. On the Wiki the process can go on and evolve on its own, it doesn't require someone to make the work of turning the whole thread into a coherent stuff.

I find the Wiki less conversational. I don't want to dictate my suggestions, fixing them into the wiki. I want to put them on the table, and put them on the wiki once they are accepted.

I can see the advantage of an evolving text, however.

Alright, I'll move any further comments on written material to the wiki. I'll just add comments instead of changing things I don't want to dictate.