Creating ECL creatures using FCTF !!!

[FullTinCan]

I don't know if this is the appropriate forum to use, or not, but I had a wonderful new use for FCTF.

I am using it to create races that have an ECL. For instance, I created a minotaur variant at ECL +3 using the Half-Orc as the base creature.

• +6 Strength, +4 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma
• Darkvision.
• Medium size (6'9 inches).
• Minotaurs base speed is 30 feet.
• Immunity to maze spells.
• +1 racial bonus to all saving throws.
• +1 racial bonus to hit.
• +2 natural armor bonus to AC.
• +4 racial bonus to Spot and Intimidate.
• Power Attack
• Scent (Ex): This ability allows the creature to detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell. Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.
  The creature can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range.
  When a creature detects a scent, the exact location is not revealed—only its presence somewhere within range. The creature can take a partial action to note the direction of the scent. If it moves within 5 feet of the source, the creature can pinpoint that source.
  A creature with the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10 (no matter what kind of surface holds the scent). This DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.
• Bonus hit points: +9.
• Level adjustment +3.
• Favored Class: Barbarian.

I assumed the following:
I wanted the Minotaur to be ECL +3.
So 3 levels of hero, and presto, I have the minotaur.

• Heightened Physical Ability +4 Strength (Cost 6 HrP)
• Heightened Physical Ability +4 Constitution (Cost 6 HrP)
• Scent (Cost 3 HrP)
• +1 Racial bonus to all saves (3rd level Hero's base save bonus)
• +1 Racial bonus to hit (3rd level hero's base attack bonus)
• +9 Hit points (3rd level hero's base hit points, kind of)
• Heightened Defenses +2 Natural Armor bonus to AC (4 HrP)
• Keen Sight +4 Spot (2 HrP)
• Skill Bonus +4 Intimidate (2 HrP)
• Power attack, 3rd level feat

So there you have it. I believe this is a reasonably balanced race, and highlights the very powerful elements of FCTF.

 

[cybernetic]

Have you tested it out by playing with races created like this? If so I might just have to "open" up my copy again...

 

[vermicious knid]

I see your minotaur is medium-size. Are you aware of a streamlined method for creating large or small races using the four color rules? Sizeshift doesn't really do the job. You can buy all of the pieces of your new size individually (carry capacity, STR, etc...), but that seems a bit tedious.

 

[FullTinCan]

I actually intended the minotaur to be medium-size.

And the more I have thought about this race, there's nothing that says minotaur, except perhaps scent, so I have decided it more accurately reflects an Uruk Hai (Great Orc). Change the scent ability to Inexhaustable Endurance, and presto, Uruk Hai.

 

[vermicious knid]

I understand you were trying to create a medium minotaur. I was just wondering if you knew how to quickly create non-medium size races using the four color rules. I couldn't find an easy way to do it.

 

[FullTinCan]

I understand you were trying to create a medium minotaur. I was just wondering if you knew how to quickly create non-medium size races using the four color rules. I couldn't find an easy way to do it.

Actually, I looked quickly, and didn't find a quick and simple way of doing it, so I figured, well, just keep the creature as medium. Perhaps RangerWickett or Morrus will drop in with some suggestions...

 

[Forrester]

Actually, I looked quickly, and didn't find a quick and simple way of doing it, so I figured, well, just keep the creature as medium. Perhaps RangerWickett or Morrus will drop in with some suggestions...

I'm not an official flunky, but I think you might want to create a Large Creature Template -- it'd be a lot simpler than the Kryptoni -- er, Andromedan template or the Web-Spinner template.

You'd have to go through all of the icky power-by-power math that vermicious knid refers to, but you'd only have to do it ONCE.

Might as well point out here that I think the Superpower giving someone extra melee range is too cheap for 3E, and ditto increased movement rate -- both powers you'd want to include in the large creature template.

Why not try it out with the full Minotaur, and see how it compares with the ECL for the minotaur in the DMG (or the newer ECL in the Dragon) ?

 

[Morrus]

We did actually have a variant size power... It'll be a good thing to stick in the next book.

Forrester's suggestion of making a "large size" template is a good one. That didn't occur to me. I'd be interested to see how it works out.

[Cross posted in Nat 20 forum]

 

[Forrester]

I'm playing with a template/large creature CR vs Hero test right now.

Question: Is there a Superpower I missed that adds to a creature's BAB instead of just attack bonus (i.e., Heightened Accuracy)?

I think there really needs to be one . . . maybe it costs 2 instead of one? 3?

Actually, an estimated cost for what it should be might come out of what I'm playing around with right now . . . but did I just miss something?

 

[Forrester]

A 4CTF Ogre . . .

Playing with making an Ogre using 4CTF. This is either a test of the CR system, or of 4CTF -- I'm not sure which .

I did this to test out what a Large Creature template might look like, and what problems might have to be overcome in making one.


I'll start by noting that an Ogre is +5 ECL in the DMG, a +8 ECL creature in the Dragon magazine that tried to update ECLs, but is only a CR2 creature.

It looks like the best way to make an Ogre is by creating a 6th level Hero:


Ogry the Ogre: Hero6 (48 Hero Points)

Let's start where they matchup just fine:

+3 BAB (just like an Ogre)
+2/+2/+2 saves (Close: Ogry would normally have +4/+1/+1)


And now, the Superpowers.
I'll give costs, then the abilities.

15 (Heightened Strength x5)
6 (Heightened Con x2)
4 (Lowlight vision + Darkvision)
2 (Increased Reach)
2 (Mighty Lifting)
1 (Speed = 40' -- errata'd for all giants)
10 (+5 Natural Armor)
2 (Super Toughness x2, bringing him to an average of 19hp before Con bonus)

Total buy = 42.

However, I must make two very important notes.

Ogry has two feats, but an Ogre would only have one. (I'm not giving Ogry a feat for becoming a Hero1, for obvious reasons).

Ogry has no hit to Dex (-2), Intelligence (-4), or Charisma (-4) like a regular Ogre would.

Ogry has Low-light vision, but a regular Ogre does not.

Because characters usually don't play Ogre wizards or sorcerers, I'll balance it this way:

-3 Hero Points for the Dex hit
-2 Hero Points for the Int hit
-0 Hero Points for the Cha hit (Dump Stat!)
-1 Hero Point to lose Low-light vision
-2 Hero Points for getting rid of the extra feat

Bringing the buy from 42 to 34. WOW!

This means that supposedly, Ogry as a 6th level Hero is overpowered; at this point, he's just like an Ogre, except he's got 14 Hero Points to spare!

This brings us to Part II of the modifications.

Reach is too cheap: Price at 4 instead of 2.
Increased Speed is too cheap: Price at 2 instead of 1.
Ogry should only be able to spend 9 points in Natural Armor and in Heightened Strength. Instead, he's paid 15 and 10, respectively. Double all costs over what's normal.

That's +6 for his strength boost and +1 for the armor boost.

Total increase in cost: 10.

New buy for Ogry: 44 Hero Points.

Not bad, I think. There is one other notable difference -- a 6th level Hero is going to get more of a hp bonus from Con than a 4HD Ogre. So the Hero has that going for him as well.

I was going to do the MM Minotaur next, but maybe I'll leave that for someone else .


There are a few things that are clear:

1) We need a Superpower for BAB. I got lucky here, that a 6th level Hero has the same BAB as a standard ogre.

2) A system for getting Hero Points back in essential buys for feats, hits to Int or Wisdom or Dex, is necessary.

3) A system that increases costs for Str and Con and Dex if the buys go over the "legal limit" is necessary.

4) The fact that Heroes get d4hp and extra HD, but Giants have d8 with fewer HD, needs to be accounted for somewhere.