Creating New Core Classes?

[Azaar]

I've been considering trying to figure out how to create core classes of my own, possibly for view here on the forums to see what people might think. However, creating a core class is quite a step up from creating a PrC like my Archetypal Necromancer (just below this thread, if you'll excuse my obvious and shameful plug attempt ).

Anyone have any suggestions on online articles or anything at all that deals with creating new core classes?

 

[Crothian]

Common Sense. Core classes are very general and malible. The fit more then one need. First, come up with an idea. Then force all the core classes to become this idea. the reason to do this is because core classes should not overlap. Also, make sure it would not be better served through multi classing or a prestige class. Most of the core classes that claim to be new and not a new version of an old class are better sevrved through onew of those means.

Balancing a core class is just like balancing a prestige class. Guess and check. Remember, you are balancing it to other core classes. Good Luck.

 

[Outergod]

Common Sense. Core classes are very general and malible. The fit more then one need. First, come up with an idea. Then force all the core classes to become this idea. the reason to do this is because core classes should not overlap. Also, make sure it would not be better served through multi classing or a prestige class. Most of the core classes that claim to be new and not a new version of an old class are better sevrved through onew of those means.

Balancing a core class is just like balancing a prestige class. Guess and check. Remember, you are balancing it to other core classes. Good Luck.

The problem with saying that multiclassing/taking a PrC is usually better than creating your own core class or making slight modifications to an existing core class is that it rarely satisfies experienced players. These players know EXACTLY what they want in a character and (if they're anything like my players and myself) these things can rarely be found in any of the core classes or PrCs.

A fine example is the thread I posted about the Fighter Core Class Variant. There's no way you can tell me that by simply multiclassing Fighter/Rogue you can get the same (or even similar) results. The player doesn't want any of the Dodge, Evasion, Sneak Attack, Use Magic Device, etc feats/skills of a Rogue but does want just a few of the Rogue's class skills. So how do you create something like that? You have to do it yourself.

I say go ahead and create a few core classes and see how you and your players like them. I'm sure everyone will have a blast no matter if the classes are a little out of balance.

You do have a copy of the Class Creation Engine .pdf file don't you?

Outergod

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Someone did put a document together for a point system to build additional core classes as well as prestige classes. By no means is it perfect, but it does give a good indicator of how balanced the class may or may not be.

Here's the link:
http://www.community3e.com/dn/class_d20cce.pdf

I used it to create a core class for my world, if you're interested, you can check it out here.

Later!

 

[Outergod]

Someone did put a document together for a point system to build additional core classes as well as prestige classes. By no means is it perfect, but it does give a good indicator of how balanced the class may or may not be.

Here's the link:
http://www.community3e.com/dn/class_d20cce.pdf

I used it to create a core class for my world, if you're interested, you can check it out here.

Later!

YES!! Thanks Cloudgatherer! I knew that I had seen that Successor class somewhere but I couldn't remember where. Very well done class.

So you happen to know who created the 2 Kensai core classes that were posted a few months back? They also participated in serious rocking.

Outergod

 

[Azaar]

The setting for what I'm planning to create these core classes for is more a futuristic setting, with little or no magic. The basic classes, as I have them in mind, sorta reflect the four main core classes from 2nd edition to a certain degree (warrior, doctor, and spy types, basically, but I'm also putting together a class with leadership qualities, sorta like the paladin... might toss it in favor of the base three I listed above and just make the leadership qualities similar to feats). I want to make them unique, yet also completely balanced. The problem is figuring out how exactly to do it, since what little of the class-building stuff I've seen deals specifically with medieval settings, and the DMG isn't too helpful with anything other than stats for futuristic weapons (unless I royally missed something in the books).

I do, however, want to avoid as much of the min/maxing problems that crop up in some of the core classes (most notoriously in the cleric, if the words of quite a few of the WOTC forum members are to be believed). Hence, my job will likely be that much harder. My focus is more on wishing to create classes that have their own unique strengths, yet don't really outperform any of the other classes, but rather compliment what might be perceived as 'weaknesses' with their own strengths (gods, I hope that made sense).

 

[Crothian]

Building a class from the ground up will give you everything you want in the class. That is not always a good thing. It is easier to stick with the rules as they are to build a character. That is why I always try to state a solution by the rules first. That solution is not always viable to the person. The class creation engine isn't to bad. I created a simpler version for a modern d20 game I ran.

 

[Outergod]

The setting for what I'm planning to create these core classes for is more a futuristic setting, with little or no magic. The basic classes, as I have them in mind, sorta reflect the four main core classes from 2nd edition to a certain degree (warrior, doctor, and spy types, basically, but I'm also putting together a class with leadership qualities, sorta like the paladin... might toss it in favor of the base three I listed above and just make the leadership qualities similar to feats). I want to make them unique, yet also completely balanced. The problem is figuring out how exactly to do it, since what little of the class-building stuff I've seen deals specifically with medieval settings, and the DMG isn't too helpful with anything other than stats for futuristic weapons (unless I royally missed something in the books).

I do, however, want to avoid as much of the min/maxing problems that crop up in some of the core classes (most notoriously in the cleric, if the words of quite a few of the WOTC forum members are to be believed). Hence, my job will likely be that much harder. My focus is more on wishing to create classes that have their own unique strengths, yet don't really outperform any of the other classes, but rather compliment what might be perceived as 'weaknesses' with their own strengths (gods, I hope that made sense).

If you're looking to create classes for a more modern setting they you have to pick up the latest issue of Dungeon Magazine...I don't know if it's on newstands yet ( I just got mine in the mail a couple of days ago) but it's got a preview of a setting for the d20 MODERN rules that covers basically what you're talking about.

Outergod

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Sorry, I don't recall who posted the other classes. There are *several* kensai classes I've seen, and I don't recall them all.

I currently have a player with a successor cohort. By no means is he imbalancing, on the contrary he maybe a little underpowered around 8th level, but I have yet to play the class up through 15+ (where it should get interesting).

 

[Darklone]

Just wanna chime in that I don't like that class generator. Simply look at the fact that the sorcerers spellcasting ability costs the same as the bards ... And the wizard only looks balanced since it costs a hell on earth do buy his spellcasting. The sorcerer is very cheap ... you could easily built your own class with this engine that can cast as a sorcerer with better skills and hitpoints.

There have been better engines around for 2nd ed.