D&D 3E/3.5 Creature Catalog 3.5 Overhaul Project

[Shade]

Suggested Skill Ranks: Knowledge (nature) 5, Listen 13, Search 5, Spot 13, Survival 18

Suggested Feats: Ability Focus (burble), Alertness, Improved Critical (bite), Multiattack, Snatch, Track

Blindsense 60 ft. (like linnorms)?

 

[Knight Otu]

I’ll leave the whole vorpal debate open for a little while.

People do seem to like the simple DR/vorpal...

 

[BOZ]

perhaps so… if only this were a democracy. I’ll make a decision on Monday.

 

[Shade]

I keep forgetting...is this an oligarchy or a theocracy?

 

[Knight Otu]

It's a BOZarchy.

 

[Shade]

It's a BOZarchy.

How BOZzare!

 

[BOZ]

I’d be a little nervous about calling it a theocracy.

Anyways, I’ve given it some thought and I’d like to make a hybrid of what I came up with and the DR. there has to be a way to make that all work together. I’m assuming that DR still works even on nonlethal damage?

I think it should be enough to give it Damage reduction 10/slashing and magic, and keep the resistance the way I wrote it. We want it to be only successfully killed by a vorpal weapon right? But the idea is not simply to hit it over and over with a vorpal sword until all of its hit points are gone – we want that juicy critical hit.

Sure, this thing’s got only 172 hit points. If you send two fighters with vorpal swords after it – easy victory right? If you take the resistance and DR away from a vorpal sword, and let’s say your two fighters do an average of 20 hp damage per hit, they can dispatch it easily in less than 5 rounds by hacking at it. I suppose that might be good enough for some, but that vorpal sword is hungry! It wants to do what it was meant to do to this creature!

So, here is my genius idea. The Resistance to weapon damage as I wrote it, as well as the DR listed above. AND! Vorpal weapons automatically have their crit range doubled against a jabberwock. This definitely constitutes a weakness, and the sword will do what it is meant to do.

So:

Resistance to Weapon Damage (Ex): A jabberwock treats damage from bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing weapons as nonlethal damage.

Vulnerability to Vorpal Weapons (Ex): The critical threat range of a vorpal weapon is doubled when wielded against a jabberwock. A vorpal weapon will kill a jabberwock if the wielder successfully cuts off its head.

 

[Shade]

One potential "wrinkle"...

1. Fighters beat down jabberwock with nonlethal damage until unconsciousness sets in.
2. Fighter delivers coup de grace with acid, fire, frost, etc. (Since its resistance only applies to the three weapon damage type categories).

Special immunity to weapons bypassed.

Now, if it were regeneration, it could only be coup de graced by a vorpal weapon, which would automatically confirm a critical, thereby cutting off its head, maintaining the spirit of the vorpal vulnerability.

Plus, this way the critter can actually get back up and fight, rather than lying there for hours awaiting nonlethal damage to go away.

Therefore, circular logic has set in and I am now a proponent of regeneration.

Another thought...why not state that vorpal weapons automatically confirm a threat, in addition to or instead of doubling the threat range?

 

[BOZ]

One potential "wrinkle"...

1. Fighters beat down jabberwock with nonlethal damage until unconsciousness sets in.
2. Fighter delivers coup de grace with acid, fire, frost, etc. (Since its resistance only applies to the three weapon damage type categories).

Special immunity to weapons bypassed.

true, there is that. Though, it does have spell resistance. Of course, a part of me says to leave this loophole in there – this gives characters a chance to beat it if the DM is cruel enough to send one against a party with no vorpal weapon. The players would first of all have to realize that they have not killed it when it goes down and that their weapons were having only a minimal effect. And if all of this is still a problem, we could put in a stipulation like “the jabberwock returns to life in X days if not killed with a vorpal weapon”

Now, if it were regeneration, it could only be coup de graced by a vorpal weapon, which would automatically confirm a critical, thereby cutting off its head, maintaining the spirit of the vorpal vulnerability.

Plus, this way the critter can actually get back up and fight, rather than lying there for hours awaiting nonlethal damage to go away.

Therefore, circular logic has set in and I am now a proponent of regeneration.

hmm, I’ll consider that. Remember, I was considering regen before. but with as many “helping hand” powers it has already, I’m worried that regen will push it too far.

Another thought...why not state that vorpal weapons automatically confirm a threat, in addition to or instead of doubling the threat range?

I don’t know about that – there has to be some accounting for skill and luck. You need that chance that it doesn’t work sometimes. I mean keep in mind – the vorpal sword is an insta-kill weapon. Unless you fight a lot of undead and constructs, a fighter with a vorpal sword really can literally be a killing machine! Just imagine a fighter with improved critical wielding a keen vorpal scimitar… (well OK, not all of that stacks anymore, but still!) it is deadly enough as it is. If you have a weapon that almost guarantees a capable wielder to kill the jabberwock in less than 3 rounds of combat that’s not a very impressive fight is it? I think there should be the chance that a jabberwock can kill you even if you have a vorpal weapon – make it a REAL fight!

Hey, let’s borrow from the above example, and just say that a fighter with imp crit does have a vorpal scimitar. (this guy is really into cutting off heads, it seems). He normally has a threat range of 15-20 – pretty damn good! Fighting a jabberwock, this guy now has a threat range of 9-20 – and that’s just sick! He has a 60% chance of threatening a crit on the jabberwock on any given hit, and if his attack bonus is high enough he should kill it fairly easily and quickly.

Now imagine an ordinary fighter with, oh I don’t know, a vorpal greataxe. His normal threat range is only a 20, so against a jabberwock it is only 19-20. he’s not particularly well-prepared to handle a creature like this in the first place, so it’s going to take some luck for him to take one down.

 

[Shade]

true, there is that. Though, it does have spell resistance. Of course, a part of me says to leave this loophole in there – this gives characters a chance to beat it if the DM is cruel enough to send one against a party with no vorpal weapon. The players would first of all have to realize that they have not killed it when it goes down and that their weapons were having only a minimal effect. And if all of this is still a problem, we could put in a stipulation like “the jabberwock returns to life in X days if not killed with a vorpal weapon”

Yeah, but spell resistance does nothing against mundane fire, alchemist's fire, corrosive/flaming/frost/shocking/screaming weapons, etc. I guess I'm just used to playing in games that once we beat a critter that is obviously auto-healing down to unconsciousness, we generally try all available energy and alignment types to "finish the deed".

hmm, I’ll consider that. Remember, I was considering regen before. but with as many “helping hand” powers it has already, I’m worried that regen will push it too far.

Not if its only regen 1 or 2.

I don’t know about that – there has to be some accounting for skill and luck. You need that chance that it doesn’t work sometimes. I mean keep in mind – the vorpal sword is an insta-kill weapon. Unless you fight a lot of undead and constructs, a fighter with a vorpal sword really can literally be a killing machine! Just imagine a fighter with improved critical wielding a keen vorpal scimitar… (well OK, not all of that stacks anymore, but still!) it is deadly enough as it is. If you have a weapon that almost guarantees a capable wielder to kill the jabberwock in less than 3 rounds of combat that’s not a very impressive fight is it? I think there should be the chance that a jabberwock can kill you even if you have a vorpal weapon – make it a REAL fight!

Hey, let’s borrow from the above example, and just say that a fighter with imp crit does have a vorpal scimitar. (this guy is really into cutting off heads, it seems). He normally has a threat range of 15-20 – pretty damn good! Fighting a jabberwock, this guy now has a threat range of 9-20 – and that’s just sick! He has a 60% chance of threatening a crit on the jabberwock on any given hit, and if his attack bonus is high enough he should kill it fairly easily and quickly.

Now imagine an ordinary fighter with, oh I don’t know, a vorpal greataxe. His normal threat range is only a 20, so against a jabberwock it is only 19-20. he’s not particularly well-prepared to handle a creature like this in the first place, so it’s going to take some luck for him to take one down.

That would all be true, had they not changed vorpal to only crit on a 20.

Vorpal: This potent and feared ability allows the weapon to sever the heads of those it strikes. Upon a roll of natural 20 (followed by a successful roll to confirm the critical hit), the weapon severs the opponent’s head (if it has one) from its body. Some creatures, such as many aberrations and all oozes, have no heads. Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads. Most other creatures, however, die when their heads are cut off. A vorpal weapon must be a slashing weapon. (If you roll this property randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll.) Strong necromancy and transmutation; CL 18th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, circle of death, keen edge; Price +5 bonus.

That's the only reason I suggested the auto confirm, and only in conjunction with it having regeneration. 5% guarantee kill for party, if they have the right tool for the job. Otherwise, call in the mages. (Hey, it's only fair. Fighters have to save their butts from golems.)