trancejeremy
Adventurer
Necromancer is small, but they are backed by White Wolf...
Creature Catalog to be Published
- Thread starter Cergorach
- Start date
PatrickLawinger
First Post
Okay, don't know when Clark will have time to come by and give an "official" answer but here are a few vague answers...
Necromancer Games does know it has to avoid using any WotC IP. Several people will make certain there are no conflicts.
Necromancer Games always does its best to give credit where credit is due. Bill and Clark go out of their way to do things like contact Steve Crompton and ask for permission to use his artwork from Grimtooths Traps, and convince him to make new artwork for the new book.
An answer to a question nobody seems to have brought up. There are no plans to "conflict" with creatures in the upcoming MM2. Scott has always had a policy of moving converted creatures to a separate part of his website when "official" versions came out. Trust me, "Oh, that should be in MM2." will not be a valid excuse not to buy this book.
While everything can change, and Orcus isn't here with the "official" word, the book is slated to include a large number of completely new creatures created by the Creature Catalog team and monsters created by members of the Necromancer Games crew for past and future adventures.
Clark does have answers to some questions on the Necromancer boards located at http://pub39.ezboard.com/bnecromancergames so you might want to stop by and see what he has said there.
Thanks,
Patrick
Necromancer Games does know it has to avoid using any WotC IP. Several people will make certain there are no conflicts.
Necromancer Games always does its best to give credit where credit is due. Bill and Clark go out of their way to do things like contact Steve Crompton and ask for permission to use his artwork from Grimtooths Traps, and convince him to make new artwork for the new book.
An answer to a question nobody seems to have brought up. There are no plans to "conflict" with creatures in the upcoming MM2. Scott has always had a policy of moving converted creatures to a separate part of his website when "official" versions came out. Trust me, "Oh, that should be in MM2." will not be a valid excuse not to buy this book.
While everything can change, and Orcus isn't here with the "official" word, the book is slated to include a large number of completely new creatures created by the Creature Catalog team and monsters created by members of the Necromancer Games crew for past and future adventures.
Clark does have answers to some questions on the Necromancer boards located at http://pub39.ezboard.com/bnecromancergames so you might want to stop by and see what he has said there.
Thanks,
Patrick
Orcus
First Post
Wow! Guess I should jump in.
You are right on. We are not Enron. But I do have a paper shredder. Does that count?
As for being a "big boy" I think that is all relative. I guess I am a "big boy" of d20 companies, for whatever that is worth.
But I will say this. Necro is affiliated with WW. Steve Wieck (pres of WW) and I speak on nearly a daily basis and work out many product strategies. Obviously I am not going to do anything to get WotC pissed at me or perhaps more importantly pissed at my friends at WW. This is a very small community. Someone posted that if I did something "to the max" it would have repricussions for us all. You are right about that. But please remember I'm the guy that produced the monster book that beat the offical monster book to press. I know all about that issue and I wouldnt do anything to sink d20. I am here to promote d20, not ruin it. If I thought a product of mine would ruin d20 I would cancel the product and eat the loss. I love d20. So my company is not one of the ones that you need to worry about causing spill over effect.
As for being a lawyer and making mistakes. I make them all the time. Notice several sentence fragments in the above text.
Regarding the Creature Catalog:
1. Obviously there are a number of monsters we cant do. I am working with WotC on that issue (and a number of other issues). Could an unforseen legal issue derail this whole project? Its possible. But I dont think that will happen.
2. As for crediting the original contributors, to the extent it can be determined who submitted what they will be credited. So Scott will have to help me with that. But I have every intention of crediting the original contributors (particularly for the original monsters). But Scott and I will work that out. Will someone get overlooked? Probably. Will people disagree on who deserves the credit for a particular thing/monster/item/whatever? Probably. So I will appologize in advance if I goof it up. But understand that I want to give credit where it is due. So does Scott.
3. Necro is not so much "grabbing this up" as we are facilitating Scott's site being taken to the next level. It was the site that led me to hire him and now we are proud to help him get it out.
4. As to whether we have misjudged the potential of the product, I guess I dont really care. I like Scott alot. I love the site. I wanted to make this happen. We will sell enough to pay for its cost of production at the very least. Thats good enough for me. This is why d20 is cool. Not everything has to be a pure business decision. Some stuff can just be a gaming decision. And I think this will be cool for gaming. Maybe I will be wrong. But I dont think I am. Nor do I think I have misjudged the product. But what the hell do I know? We'll let the market decide.
5. I dont see repricussions from the fan community. If anything, I think they will think it is cool that their names might be in print rather than on a web site and then they can use that on a resume. There has long been a "legitimacy" gap between "print" stuff and "fan" stuff. I am helping bridge that gap because alot of times that gap is more about the snobbery of printing than about quality. I dont see fans getting pissed. But again, what do I know. I havent gotten any hate mail. If anyone wants to send some, my address is clark@necromancergames.com. We are committed to taking gamer comments into account because we are gamers ourselves.
Hope that helps!
Clark
You are right on. We are not Enron. But I do have a paper shredder. Does that count?
As for being a "big boy" I think that is all relative. I guess I am a "big boy" of d20 companies, for whatever that is worth.
But I will say this. Necro is affiliated with WW. Steve Wieck (pres of WW) and I speak on nearly a daily basis and work out many product strategies. Obviously I am not going to do anything to get WotC pissed at me or perhaps more importantly pissed at my friends at WW. This is a very small community. Someone posted that if I did something "to the max" it would have repricussions for us all. You are right about that. But please remember I'm the guy that produced the monster book that beat the offical monster book to press. I know all about that issue and I wouldnt do anything to sink d20. I am here to promote d20, not ruin it. If I thought a product of mine would ruin d20 I would cancel the product and eat the loss. I love d20. So my company is not one of the ones that you need to worry about causing spill over effect.
As for being a lawyer and making mistakes. I make them all the time. Notice several sentence fragments in the above text.
Regarding the Creature Catalog:
1. Obviously there are a number of monsters we cant do. I am working with WotC on that issue (and a number of other issues). Could an unforseen legal issue derail this whole project? Its possible. But I dont think that will happen.
2. As for crediting the original contributors, to the extent it can be determined who submitted what they will be credited. So Scott will have to help me with that. But I have every intention of crediting the original contributors (particularly for the original monsters). But Scott and I will work that out. Will someone get overlooked? Probably. Will people disagree on who deserves the credit for a particular thing/monster/item/whatever? Probably. So I will appologize in advance if I goof it up. But understand that I want to give credit where it is due. So does Scott.
3. Necro is not so much "grabbing this up" as we are facilitating Scott's site being taken to the next level. It was the site that led me to hire him and now we are proud to help him get it out.
4. As to whether we have misjudged the potential of the product, I guess I dont really care. I like Scott alot. I love the site. I wanted to make this happen. We will sell enough to pay for its cost of production at the very least. Thats good enough for me. This is why d20 is cool. Not everything has to be a pure business decision. Some stuff can just be a gaming decision. And I think this will be cool for gaming. Maybe I will be wrong. But I dont think I am. Nor do I think I have misjudged the product. But what the hell do I know? We'll let the market decide.
5. I dont see repricussions from the fan community. If anything, I think they will think it is cool that their names might be in print rather than on a web site and then they can use that on a resume. There has long been a "legitimacy" gap between "print" stuff and "fan" stuff. I am helping bridge that gap because alot of times that gap is more about the snobbery of printing than about quality. I dont see fans getting pissed. But again, what do I know. I havent gotten any hate mail. If anyone wants to send some, my address is clark@necromancergames.com. We are committed to taking gamer comments into account because we are gamers ourselves.
Hope that helps!
Clark
Well, I do want to make it clear that I was not belittling Necromancer Games in the comments above. Although I have never seen their balance sheet or thier income statement, I am sure that they are a serious player in the d20 arena. My comments were aimed at the suggestiion above that 'big companies always do the morally, ethically and legally correct thing.' That is NOT always the case. That was my point in that instance.
With regard to Clark's last comments, perhaps Necromancer Games is acting out of some altruistic objective, but that would make it the exception rather then the rule in the business world. The casual observer, not having seen Clark's comments above, would see this as Necromancy Games taking advantage of a situation.
I am no publisher, but understand the business process pretty well. This is a 'no brainer'. The work has been done. The promotion has been done. Demand for the exact product in electronic media is right in front of you. I do not see this as satisfying some injustice done to online contributers of material at all. It is the company that picks up some obscure, rarely-viewed product, hidden away from most observers and not receiving the attention it deserves that is more likely to be making the 'non-business' (or altruistic) decision.
Necromancer Games seems to be trying to turn a buck on this. An easy one at that. For the most part, that is what capitalism is about. And, despite any inferences from the comments above, I am 150% behind this sort of activity. It makes the world go round.
But, unless the contributers to the Creature Catalogue fully understood that _their work_ might be published and that _someone else_ might profit from it _prior_ to giving it up, then I believe that a very deep shadow is cast upon Necromancer Games and this site in general. There should be no grey area here. I don't know copywrite or fraud laws at all, but would certianly pursue it to the last yard, on principle alone, if I were a contributer who felt even slightly duped.
With regard to Clark's last comments, perhaps Necromancer Games is acting out of some altruistic objective, but that would make it the exception rather then the rule in the business world. The casual observer, not having seen Clark's comments above, would see this as Necromancy Games taking advantage of a situation.
I am no publisher, but understand the business process pretty well. This is a 'no brainer'. The work has been done. The promotion has been done. Demand for the exact product in electronic media is right in front of you. I do not see this as satisfying some injustice done to online contributers of material at all. It is the company that picks up some obscure, rarely-viewed product, hidden away from most observers and not receiving the attention it deserves that is more likely to be making the 'non-business' (or altruistic) decision.
Necromancer Games seems to be trying to turn a buck on this. An easy one at that. For the most part, that is what capitalism is about. And, despite any inferences from the comments above, I am 150% behind this sort of activity. It makes the world go round.
But, unless the contributers to the Creature Catalogue fully understood that _their work_ might be published and that _someone else_ might profit from it _prior_ to giving it up, then I believe that a very deep shadow is cast upon Necromancer Games and this site in general. There should be no grey area here. I don't know copywrite or fraud laws at all, but would certianly pursue it to the last yard, on principle alone, if I were a contributer who felt even slightly duped.
Grazzt
Demon Lord
I can respond to the giving credit where credit is due.
Firstly- the new stuff is purely mine and Erica's (on the site, that is).
Secondly, any conversions that make it in will be credited to their original author/designer be it Gygax, one of the many from the FF, or any other source.
Without all those guys that originally designed those monsters, my site wouldn't be anywhere near as big as it is or as popular or as useful as it is.
Firstly- the new stuff is purely mine and Erica's (on the site, that is).
Secondly, any conversions that make it in will be credited to their original author/designer be it Gygax, one of the many from the FF, or any other source.
Without all those guys that originally designed those monsters, my site wouldn't be anywhere near as big as it is or as popular or as useful as it is.
Da Man said:
Is the stuff in the CC released under the OGL?
If so, the contributors understood -- or better have understood -- what rights they were giving up. ANYTHING which is "Open Game Content" may be republished by ANYONE, without asking or needing permission. End. Period. Full Stop. Once you've marked work as "Open Game Content", you have neither the legal NOR THE MORAL right to stop anyone else from doing with it as they see fit -- provided they too, of course, abide by the terms of the OGL.
The lisence text is public, and it's been discussed to death on every major internet fora. Anyone who claims ignorance at this point and says, after the fact, "Oh, I didn't really understand what 'open' meant.", has only themselves to blame. Consider it experience. "Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want."
DnDChick
Demon Queen of Templates
There are some monsters that have been posted to the CC as OGL, and therefore they are OGL. We understand that.
But, what we havent posted to the site are dozens of other original monsters that might just find their way into the published "Creature Catalog" or whatever it will be called.
But, what we havent posted to the site are dozens of other original monsters that might just find their way into the published "Creature Catalog" or whatever it will be called.
Eosin the Red
First Post
I gotta say congrats!!
It is nice to see a fans hard work earn him more than just "yeah, he has a cool web site." It is also nice to see a company that recognizes potential. This can only be win-win
EDIT: Should have said Him or Her [DnDChick]
It is nice to see a fans hard work earn him more than just "yeah, he has a cool web site." It is also nice to see a company that recognizes potential. This can only be win-win
EDIT: Should have said Him or Her [DnDChick]
Last edited:
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