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D&D Creature Catalogue discussion

Greenfield

Adventurer
At my game table (3.5), we pass the DM duties around the table.

Our current DM was given a hard copy of the Creature Catalogue, and has started using creatures and settings from it. The current one is the Carnival of Shadows, as run by the Jack of Tears.

I haven't read the creature specifics for this boss-monster (and I shouldn't), but the DM has given us a few bite.

He's listed as a CR 10, but has spell casting ability of an 18th level Sorcerer, plus he has a substantial stack of immunities.

Unless there's some huge flaw to this character, the CR isn't even a joke. It's a lie. I mean, to my thinking an 18th level Sorcerer is, as a base, CR 18. Add or subtract from there based on extras or weaknesses.

I've seen the monster CRs inflate as the MM volumes go up, but this looks like the authors weren't even trying. I suspect that they looked at the BA of an 18th level Sorcerer and worked from there.

I guess my question is, have you folks found the monsters in the book reasonably balanced for their listed CR? I mean this guy could be a fluke, or I could have been misinformed.

Any geneal advice on how to treat these things? (No spoilers, please, since we're currently in mid conflict).
 

Greenfield

Adventurer
A follow up question, which may place my ignorance in the spotlight: Is "Creature Catalogue" the same as the book "Creature Collection"?

My Dm is apparently using Creature Collection, so my entire question may be 10% off target.
 

freyar

Explorer
The Creature Catalog here is definitely different than the Creature Collection book by Sword and Sorcery! The Creature Catalog(ue) is EN World's forum for converting older-edition monsters to 3.X edition D&D (and eventually 3.5e). Basically, we want to make sure that every monster that WotC didn't convert gets the same care (or more!) as those WotC did convert. After all this time, we only have a few hundred to go, I think!

In any case, the Creature Catalog doesn't publish except on an EN World-hosted web site. A long long time ago, the first people who started up the CC put out a netbook and then got many of their conversions published in Necromancer Games's Tome of Horrors (in fact, the CC founder worked for Necromancer), but that's it.
 

ccs

39th lv DM
I haven't read the book (s?) You're talking about, but i think you're getting yourself bent out of shape over the CR needlessly.
My own xp is that characters/players can often take on things that the so called "math" of the game would indicate to be absurd. The DM knows what your characters are capable of. And he knows what you, the players are capable of.
Additionally? As the DM I've often used things that I KNOW for a fact that the characters couldn't handle in a straight up slugging match. Good thing the victory conditions weren't dependant upon a slugging match.... :)
 

Greenfield

Adventurer
I haven't read the book (s?) You're talking about, but i think you're getting yourself bent out of shape over the CR needlessly.
My own xp is that characters/players can often take on things that the so called "math" of the game would indicate to be absurd. The DM knows what your characters are capable of. And he knows what you, the players are capable of.
Additionally? As the DM I've often used things that I KNOW for a fact that the characters couldn't handle in a straight up slugging match. Good thing the victory conditions weren't dependent upon a slugging match.... :)
Sadly, this DM has a really bad track record at gauging monster CR v PC capacity.

In this case, we can't win via a slugging match, even if we had the horsepower. We need to bargain with the big-bad, not beat him. And that requires us to make nice-nice with all of his minions as well, at least for a while.

Over arching, I apologize for posting to the wrong forum.
 

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