D&D 5E Critical Hit Question

[pedro2112]

Ilbran, so if a PC in your game rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll they suffer an opportunity attack? What a horrible rule. High level fighters with 4+ attacks per round (double with action surge) will be getting negative consequences less than every 30 seconds in combat, on average.

 

[Psikerlord#]

You could also skip the extra damage, but describe something bad that causes impairment. An arrow to the knee can cramp anybody's style, movement, and adventuring career.

In other words; a crit is a chance to describe some suitable incident that happens. The opponents feet are swept from under him, a blow to the head knocks his helmet off and he gets -1 AC, or anything else you can think of - as long as it adds to the enjoyment of all.

I like this idea a lot - on a crit, you can describe an "improved action" style result. Maybe the DM calls for checks, maybe not, but cool stuff potentially happens.

Also, just an update - in the DMG thread, the OP revealed one of the optional combat tactics rules: if you roll a crit, you can roll on the "lingering wounds" table. Alas, we never got to find out what was on that table. But sounds like something that I'm gonna like! (incidentally, you also roll on the table if you go to zero hp, or fail a death save by 5 or more).

 

[Kalshane]

Ilbran, so if a PC in your game rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll they suffer an opportunity attack? What a horrible rule. High level fighters with 4+ attacks per round (double with action surge) will be getting negative consequences less than every 30 seconds in combat, on average.

I'm toying with the idea of using Fumbles, but I'd make them only happen when the character in question has Disadvantage on the roll and both dice come up failures, with one of the rolls being a natural 1. That should make them fairly rare and only come up in circumstances where the character is already distracted or hindered in some fashion to prevent the "a trained swordsman has a 5% chance to drop his sword or otherwise make a fool of himself every time he swings his sword" problem.

I may alter this in cases where the character is not proficient in the weapon (ie the wizard picks up the great axe and makes a desperate swing. Even without Disadvantage, I can see him getting over-balanced or otherwise encounter problems if he rolls a 1.)

 

[Mercule]

I'm toying with the idea of using Fumbles, but I'd make them only happen when the character in question has Disadvantage on the roll and both dice come up failures, with one of the rolls being a natural 1. That should make them fairly rare and only come up in circumstances where the character is already distracted or hindered in some fashion to prevent the "a trained swordsman has a 5% chance to drop his sword or otherwise make a fool of himself every time he swings his sword" problem.

I may alter this in cases where the character is not proficient in the weapon (ie the wizard picks up the great axe and makes a desperate swing. Even without Disadvantage, I can see him getting over-balanced or otherwise encounter problems if he rolls a 1.)

Fumbles are actually much more disruptive than crits. It's kind of fun when the NPC loses/breaks his weapon, but it really, really sucks for the PC. Ditto, for hitting a friend/self. I've always found the concept appealing, but have yet to see an implementation that was both simple to track and non-breaking. Interested in ideas, though, if you come up with something.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

Ilbran, so if a PC in your game rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll they suffer an opportunity attack? What a horrible rule. High level fighters with 4+ attacks per round (double with action surge) will be getting negative consequences less than every 30 seconds in combat, on average.

So you're worried that the monster that is taking 8 or more potential hits from your high level fighter has a chance of suffering a single extra attack from the monster every 2 to 3 rounds? So that ancient dragon possibly does an extra 19 (bite), 22 (claw), or 17 (tail) while the fighter has all those attacks?

It hasn't been a problem yet, but I'm not all that worried about it either, particularly since that opportunity attack has to hit to make any difference.

What it really comes down to is that I wanted to keep things simple, instead of a critical fumble table (or cards), etc. Your horrible attack has opened you up to a possible attack, or if you're firing into melee, a chance of hitting somebody else. From what I've heard the DMG might have a firing into melee option and I'll see what that is, but for now this has been working for us just fine.

Ilbranteloth

 

[MrBookWyrm]

what I am looking for is something we can use on the fly. charts and cards seem to cumbersome to me. the opportunity attack is great. but would like something a bit more heroic . if you know what I mean . still looking . something with dice mite be good .

 

[Ilbranteloth]

I figure that with a good description and taking into account the situation, an opportunity attack works for most things (and also give the possibility that nothing happens since they may have used their reaction), and if something else seems more appropriate then you go with it.

It worked beautifully last night though. Rogue rolled a 1, the zombie rolled a 20 and the rogue rolled another 1 on his save. He's now injured and was knocked unconscious in the battle. Everybody managed to survive, particularly since the zombie's orders were to capture them and not kill them...

Ilbranteloth

 

[jrowland]

I run two tables a week, right now we are chapter 4 Horde of the Dragon Queen. Last Saturday with my mature, home group I offered a critical variant they accepted (for now) so take this with all its non-playtested grains of salt. I too, want simple, so this might work for you.

1) Every character has a number of extra 1d6 HD = Con modifier (16 con is a +3 modifier so therefore +3d6 HD, eg). These are NOT used to determine max HP. They are strictly bonus HD (helps with adventuring day as well as crit variant below)

2) Every character has a "wound threshold" (WT) = 1/4 max HP (you can skip this, my players wanted it - ignore WT references below if you ignore this. Or do what I wanted and make "when bloodied" a criteria for crit - see #3)

3) Critical hits Occur on a Nat 20 (use normal Crit rules), when any single attack > WT, when any single attack drops a creature to 0 hp, or when failing a saving throw by rolling a 1 (and the effect does damage).

4) A creature loses 1HD for every one of the above criteria met (cumulative).

5) If a creature suffers a critical and no longer has HD, the creature takes additional damage = 1d6/critical suffered and falls unconscious

Examples:

An Orc rolls a Nat20 against PC. PC takes 2[W]+ str damage and loses 1 HD

A Gnoll rolls a Nat20 against a PC. PC takes 2[W] + str damage that drops him to 0 HP. In addition, the 2[W] + str is > WT of the PC. Therefore the PC loses 3HD

A Kobold does 5 damage to 1st level wizard with 6 HP (6 max) and no HD left. 5 > WT (1.5) so it is a crit and wizard loses 1 HD but doesn't have 1 HD so takes an additional 1d6 damage (rolls a 3) so is now at 0 and therefore takes another crit and loses another HD it doesn't have and takes an additional 1d6 damage...normally this wouldn't matter, but the die is rolledand comes up a 6...poor wizard is dead since the kobold did 5+3+6 = 14 damage to the wizards 6, bringing him to -8 in one hit (PHB pg 76, massive damage)

PS - we haven't changed HD recovery rules yet, but we are thinking a slower HD recovery would feel better (1Hd/day? Con Mod HD/day?). Along those lines, Cure Wounds would gain the Ritual tag and would cure 1HD/spell level used when used as a ritual.

PSS - Nasty crit rules when combined with wraiths and such...use with caution!

 

[Kalshane]

Fumbles are actually much more disruptive than crits. It's kind of fun when the NPC loses/breaks his weapon, but it really, really sucks for the PC. Ditto, for hitting a friend/self. I've always found the concept appealing, but have yet to see an implementation that was both simple to track and non-breaking. Interested in ideas, though, if you come up with something.

Well, I've never gone for the crazy "You chop your own leg off/accidentally stab your friend/etc) overly punishing fumbles. I think there's a difference between adding a little flavor and chaos to combat and being unnecessarily punitive to people unfortunate enough to roll a 1.

The way I'd probably handle it is that when the PC in question is attacking with Disadvantage and rolls a natural 1 on one of the dice and a miss on the other, he fumbles. The dice that didn't roll a 1 is then compared to a fumble chart that has things like "Off balance- next attack roll against you is at Advantage" or "Lost grip. Use reaction to make DC 10 Dex save or drop weapon."

 

[PDGames]

Or you could just go all out and roll on the Dungeon Wheels: Critical Hits.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ts-and-fumbles

(Yes, we're tooting our own horn here, but it seemed fitting... toot...toot)