D&D 5E Critical Hits Appears to be Next in D&D Archive

[Fifth Element]

I'm having one of those pot calling kettle moments. Read your posts in this thread, heck read virtually any thread you post in multiple times. There is a heck of a lot of insulting snark coming form you as well.

This is what the 'report bad post' button is for. Bringing comments like this into the discussion only serves to increase the chance of the thread going down in flames. If there are posts you think are inappropriate, report them.

 

[The Little Raven]

This is what the 'report bad post' button is for. Bringing comments like this into the discussion only serves to increase the chance of the thread going down in flames. If there are posts you think are inappropriate, report them.

And moderators don't hesitate to jump into a thread and cuff me upside the head when I deserve it, as noted on several threads.

 

[Plane Sailing]

But the way the mechanic is currently written, against a high AC opponent, any blow the farmer lands is a devastating blow.

No. Once again someone is associating "critical hit == devastating blow". In 4e it doesn't mean that.

The only thing it means is that if the farmer only hits on a 20 he is guaranteed to do maximum damage, but anything he can only hit on a 20 is very likely to have enough hp that it even maximum damage won't seriously bother it.

But the farmer could have done maximum damage on any of his hits.

The "devastating blow" from the skill of the heroic character comes from his additional feats and powers which enable him to make more use out of a crit.

Cheers

 

[Green Knight]

No, because there's absolutely no need. The fact that this page went beyond 10 pages, with a bunch of people expressing the belief that 3e's crit system isn't fun, proves that people feel that way.

I played in a game, yesterday, where several 20's were rolled, but most of the confirmation rolls were failed. And when damage was rolled, it ended up being mediocre (At one point someone critted with a D4 attack, and inflicted a whopping 3 damage). In comparison to that, I welcome these changes.

 

[jeffh]

No, because there's absolutely no need. The fact that this page went beyond 10 pages, with a bunch of people expressing the belief that 3e's crit system isn't fun, proves that people feel that way.

It proves that people exist who feel that way, I suppose. But it doesn't prove that they're representative - indeed, it does the opposite. The fact that the thread has gone for almost 350 posts shows that the view is controversial.

 

[Lanefan]

No. Once again someone is associating "critical hit == devastating blow". In 4e it doesn't mean that.

The "devastating blow" from the skill of the heroic character comes from his additional feats and powers which enable him to make more use out of a crit.

There's never been a formal definition of "devastating blow" in D+D, but the concept has been around forever; usually represented by a critical hit and some houserules as to what happens next. But anyone could do it...everyone was on the same footing (silly immunities notwithstanding).

If only levelled PC types are able to turn a critical hit into anything meaningful other than max damage, this just serves to further over-power the PCs in relation to the rest of the world, as only the PCs can deal a devastating blow. On behalf of Local 215 of the NPC and Monsters' Union (NPCMU; commonly known as the Cannon Fodder's Guild), I cry foul!

Lanefan

 

[Lackhand]

It proves that people exist who feel that way, I suppose. But it doesn't prove that they're representative - indeed, it does the opposite. The fact that the thread has gone for almost 350 posts shows that the view is controversial.

Valid point. So there's room for improvement, then? All that's left is whether this form of crit is an improvement, and (quick! There's still time before it goes to press!) whether there are any implications which are needed to inform our New Crit Overlords.

I think it's an improvement in two cases: Too many dice or Too many flat bonuses.
If you have a 'reasonable' number of flat bonuses on something like a greatsword or a longsword, then the doubled damage from a crit is really nice, but not earthshaking -- you get the same effect whenever you hit with your littlest iterative attack.
But on a x3 or x4 weapon, the crit is just "too good" -- when used against players, it ups the mortality beyond their ability to deal (since then any monster with an axe could be about to kill them in one blow, and so planning goes out the window -- put this through your "Save or Die effects are no fun!" filter ). This "unbreaks" that flaw.

The other case is the too many dice case -- which is just time. I think that this is the weaker argument, though.

 

[frankthedm]

Frost weapons changed. A person who did 1d10+4 damage on a normal hit, and 14 damage on a critical, dealt 14+1d6 when his weapon was editted to be a +1 frost weapon, and gained a +1d6 on all criticals for being magic. If the +1d6 was an advantage of having a magic weapon on a critical, where did the frost damage go?

Sounds like we may be able to use this case to take wild and unsubstantiated guesses about how magic weapons work in 4e.

Fact 1: We've heard +1 weapons mentioned, but the magic weapons mentioned in the magic item preview column were a +1 flaming sword and a +1 lightning sword.
Fact 2: The Critical Hits preview indicates that a magic weapon adds damage on a crit.

Wild hypothesis: Magic weapons add their + bonus to hit, but not to damage. So a +1 magic sword is +1 to hit, and also deals an extra d6 of damage on a crit because it's magical. If that sword is also flaming, frost, or lightning, it's conceivable the damage counts as that type for purposes of creature vulnerability.

So a +1 flaming longsword would do 1d8 + bonuses on a normal hit, 8 + bonuses + 1d6 on a crit, and if the creature is vulnerable to fire, it would count as fire damage (whatever that might mean).

I have a strong suspicion based on the wording of the article that they meant:

"Magic weapons (and implements for magical attacks) with energy properties add extra damage on crits. So your +1 frost warhammer deals an extra 1d6 damage on a critical hit (so your crit's now up to 14+1d6 damage in the example above).

So the extra damage dice you get on a crit with a magic weapon are the energy enchants.

This also where did the frost damage went.

It sure sounds like the energy enchantment are less uber now since they only add their 1d6 on crits, rather than to every hit.

 

[ogre]

Another thing to consider with the farmer and hero discussion, is perhaps (realisticaly) the only blow a farmer will land is a lucky critical. All his other attempts miss, it's only the lucky shot that affects the hero, and hence it is a critical, because that's the only way he can hit.
See what I mean?

Anyway, I think this change rocks! Can't wait to see what abilities get tied to crits.

 

[small pumpkin man]

I have a strong suspicion based on the wording of the article that they meant:

"Magic weapons (and implements for magical attacks) with energy properties add extra damage on crits. So your +1 frost warhammer deals an extra 1d6 damage on a critical hit (so your crit's now up to 14+1d6 damage in the example above).

So the extra damage dice you get on a crit with a magic weapon are the energy enchants.

This also where did the frost damage went.

It sure sounds like the energy enchantment are less uber now since they only add their 1d6 on crits, rather than to every hit.

That's how I read it yes, I hadn't realized there was another way to read it. This made sense to me because it explains why in the magic items article having a magic weapon have an elemental ability didn't seem to up the cost/level much. I think this is a good thing because it means when they do come up, there's still a noticeable effect(if only that of allowing you to roll dice in a situation when you wouldn't otherwise roll dice, and rolling dice can be fun), but they don't actually make a huge difference to characters power level, since assuming crits only happen on a 20, they add an average(mean) of about .2 or .3 damage per strike, (and a median of 0).