Critical Hits for Undead, Constructs...

much have you to unlearn, yes...

think of physical severity of a hit as proportional to damage you do, hrmmm?

Forgotten you have the nature and purpose of hit points...

*ahem*

You have an idea in your head of what you want to see, and are trying to wrap your head around a mechanic to pull it off. But in all seriousness, you have fallen into a common trap in your method of thinking...

"A 40 hp strike is more physically powerful than a 10 hp strike."

I think it was explained well in the 1e DMG, when there IIRC a discussion to the effect of...

If an average swordthrust through the torso deals 5 points of damage, does that mean that a 10th-level fighter can withstand 10 swordthrusts through the torso before dying? Of course not. Hit points are an abstraction of many things, with physical fortitude being only one of them. The 10th-level fighter doesn't take 10 sword thrusts through the torso; rather, he parries most of a thrust, dodges out of the way of the next thrust so it only grazes him, etc.

What does this mean? It means some 10-hp-damage hits are more equal than others.

A 10-hp-damage hit on a first level wizard is one that skewers him and brings him to dying from internal damage and blood loss.

A 10-hp-damage hit on a Balor at full hp is a small nick on the arm.

A 10-hp-damage hit on a Balor with 2 hp before the hit is that final thrust through the belly or neck or what have you.

Essentially, your bank of hit points represents not how much punishment you can take while standing still and letting someone smash you into your component molecules, but rather represents a combination of physical fortitude, luck, instinct, timing, an understanding of using weapons/shields/armor to turn blows, and so forth.

So the "severity" of a hit is not a function of damage. It is instead a function of (damage taken)/(hit points). As (damage taken)/(hit points) approaches 1, you become more severely wounded - either from a few massive hits (in terms of the % of your hp they do) or multiple smaller hits.

To put it into fairly familiar cinematic terms, look at Lord of the Rings. Lurtz (the big bad Uruk-Hai at the end of Fellowship) has a lot of hit points. The "red shirt" Uruk-Hai do not.

Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli are able to take out the normal Uruks with a single blow (maybe two)... because these blows are always hitting torso or head. Do you think they're rolling critical hits every time? I think not.

Now, Aragorn comes to Boromir's aid and gets into a battle with Lurtz. Is he swinging any less hard? No - Lurtz is deflecting his blows better. Eventually, Aragorn whittles Lurtz down to just a few hit points. He then makes the kill shot, cutting off Lurtz's arm and running him through (perhaps Aragorn is getting multiple attacks per round and his two attacks take Lurtz from, say, 15 hit points down to 0). For cinematic effect, the DM has Lurtz pull the sword into himself closer and yell at Aragorn. Aragorn does a coup de grace and beheads Lurtz.

Does that help make sense? Aragorn could knock out the rubes because he's doing a 1d8+Str damage and the rubes have just a few hp - in other words, Aragorn is doing about 100% of their hit points with each blow. But against Lurtz, Aragorn's only doing, say, 10-20% of his hit points with each hit.

Similarly, I don't think it's a stretch to say a shotgun might be able to inflict 100% of a zombie's hit points.

Having figured out what hit points mean in cinematic terms, let's some address other things.

Variable weapon damage already tells us some blows are better than others even from the same weapon. Sometimes you catch a guy leaning into your blow, other times leaning away. I think it's pretty self explanatory that variable weapon damage accounts simply for how effective a given hit is.

Now, we throw criticals (and sneak attack damage) into the equation - what makes a critical a critical? Simple - it happens to hit "vital organs" and therefore magnifies the effect of a hit.

Your 5-hit-point stab with a sword catches me in my shield arm - that hurts, but it's not too bad and doesn't impair my fighting. No critical.

Occasionally, by skill or chance, you instead catch me just above the eye or the neck or the kidney or the groin or the knee... all places that are a little more vital to my combat efficacy... they cause me more pain than a regular hit and/or impair my ability to see, breathe, or move.

This is a critical hit - not because they are somehow more physically destructive in terms of knocking my molecules apart, but because you hit an area that bleeds a lot (head) and now I'm dealing with some blood loss or you hit an area that hurts a lot (groin) and I'm having to deal with blurred vision from the pain or whatever.

Because the d20 system stays with the abstract hit points system, you don't have rules for "hobbled" on a knee hit (slows you to half speed) or "blinded" on an eye hit or what have you. So what do you do to represent the extra trauma that hitting a particular spot causes?

Simple. You make it take away more hit points. Voila! A critical hit. Rogues and other sneak attackers know where to aim, which is why they can get a ton of damage - they know what tendons to shoot for in the back of your knee or where the carotid (sp?) artery is on your neck... they're more skilled than lucky.

NOW let's address your question...

How do you represent cleaving a zombie in half in the d20 system?

Answer: It doesn't take "15 hit points of slashing damage" to do it. Rather, it takes "a slash that reduces the zombie to less than 0 hit points." Whether that's a 50-point slash when the zombie has 20 hp or a 3-point slash when it has 1 left is immaterial.

So again, my solution:

Let go of the notion that a hit that deals 3X hit points of damage is always more physically traumatic to the target than a hit that deals X points of damage.

Instead, embrace the notion that a hit that deals 3X/Y hit points of damage is more physically traumatic to the target than a hit of X/Y points of damage.

In other words, it's not the amount of damage you do that determines the severity of the hit. It's the number of hit points the target has AND the amount of damage you do that determines severity. A 10-point hit on a critter with 5 hp is more traumatic to the target than a 40 point shot on a critter with 10,000 hit points, even though 40 points is a lot more than 10 points.

As to why zombies and constructs can't be critically hit, again, there's no part that is "preferred." Bashing gears, legs, et al, is a form of "called shots" - and called shots are NOT supported by the system. You don't try to "take out its legs" (except with a trip attempt LOL) - rather, you're fighting, trying to take it out, and when you reduce it to 0 hp is when you finally get in that shot that collapses its kneecap and causes the whole thing to keel over, immobile.

And to go back to your house analogy, let me point out where it breaks down - the house, if undead or construct, is MOVING - you don't get free shot after free shot on the load-bearing portion. Beyond that, the d20/hit point system explicitly says, "you can't somehow focus your attacks on the load-bearing portion" because - and this is important - you're assumed to be doing that anyway. With the house, you swing at the load-bearing 2x4 - and it puts a window in your way. You swing at the load-bearing 2x4 again and it jumps back so instead of a solid hit, you merely nick it. Then it jumps to the side and you wind up smacking drywall. You scream at the house to hold still and it just laughs, throwing a door in the path of your next swing. FINALLY you get a solid shot in on the 2x4 and it collapses. But you've broken a window, put a hole in the door and another one in the drywall in the meantime, "wasting" some of your swings.

That's right, ladies and germs - the d20/hit point system assumes you're ALWAYS trying for a called shot to the head/neck/arm/etc. And the rules for that assumption are that the called shot only hits when you finally work the thing down to 0 hp.

When you keep that in mind - that the system itself already assumes you're trying for a "called shot to the vitals", you don't have to try to wrap your head around mechanics for "what if I want to do this sort of called shot? a headshot? a groinshot? etc. How do I make the mechanics work for each case?" The mechanics are already working with the hit point system - and they say (like it or not) that you just haven't had the right opening to get that shot off until you land the hit that knocks them under 0 hp.

In other words, you're looking at the system backwards. You have a result in mind and want that result to dictate the die rolls necessary.

Instead, you should look at the die rolls and let them dictate the necessary result.

In other words: you don't get to pick exactly what part of your target you hit, because your target can move or interpose something else in the way or otherwise force your swing to hit something other than what you intended.

As a final note, if you want a "clockwork" construct rather than a "magically animated" construct, you could simply give it a special vulnerability:

Critical Vulnerability (Ex): Because a clockwork construct has gears, pistons, hydraulics, and other mechanisms vital to its operation, and an attack that hits these areas can cripple it, the clockwork construct is subject to critical hits. (this ability would supersede the "normal" invulnerability a construct has).

--The Sigil
 
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Well put Sigil. I was considering makingyou my nemesis for always saying the stuff I want to say better than I did, but then I realized you wouud be far more useful as an ally... Bwah-hahahahahahahaha..... um... man I have got to lay off the caffeine during the day...
 

Re: What????

Aeris Winterood said:


I was hoping someone would convince me that my thinking was wrong.. but no one has yet...

Looks to me like you’re blatantly ignoring people telling you you’re wrong.

Crit-Immune is a game mechanic that makes those monters the CR that are listed. Let it be and play the game.
 

Just for reference purposes, the following are feats allowing criticals on undead and/or constructs.

Legend:

KPG = Kingdoms of Kalamar: Player’s Guide (Kenzer)
MoW = Masters of the Wild
NBoF = Netbook of feats
UD = Undead (AEG)

Death Angel (UD p.28)
Prereq: CHA 13+, WIS 14+, Stout Hearted
When holding a blessed or sanctified divine focus, you can inflict
critical hits on undead creatures and can deal sneak attack damage
on undead creatures.

Finding the Secrets (KPG p.86)
Prereq: Improved Critical, Knowledge(Monsters) 6+, +9 Base Attack
This feat may be taken multiple times, each with a different creature type (for example: constructs, elementals, oozes, plants, or undead).
Choose a creature type. You can now deliver critical hits to creatures of that type even if they are normally immune to criticals.

Supernatural Blow (MoW p.25)
Prereq: Have a favored enemy, +7 Base Attack
When your attack on a favored enemy would be a critical hit, except the enemy is immune to critical hits, you deal +1d6 damage per damage die your weapon would do on a critical hit. Your favored enemy bonus applies to creatures that are immune to critical hits.

Destruction (NBoF)
Prereq: 4 ranks of Profession (siege engineer)
Benefit: You can score critical hits against objects and constructs.
Special: This also allows you to use abilities and attacks that only work against creatures subject to critical hits, such as Coup de Grace, Sneak Attack and the ranger’s Favored
Enemy damage bonus, against objects and constructs.
Notes: Objects and constructs always succeed at Fortitude saves against a Coup de Grace.

Necrophysiology (NBoF)
Prereq: 4 ranks of Knowledge (undead)
Benefit: You can score critical hits against corporeal undead
creatures.
Special: This also allows you to use abilities and actions that only work against creatures subject to critical hits, such as Coup de Grace, Sneak Attack and the ranger’s Favored
Enemy damage bonus, against corporeal undead.
Notes: Undead always succeed at Fortitude saves against a Coup de Grace. DMs who don’t use the Knowledge (undead) skill can substitute Knowledge (religion) for the prerequisite.

I will not comment on power or brokenness. It's your campaign after all :D

Andargor
 
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I know this isn't the house rules section, so I'll be brief.

If you like crits on everything, you can allow maximum weapon damage on a crit against immune creatures (don't multiply bonus damage). Some people just really like crits, so give them a little gift. (:
 

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