Critical Hits Report: Mearls on 4E

[Steely Dan]

This is why 4E is such a board game.

1st Ed was mini/grid/tactical/"board-game" heavy.

Look, D&D has always been two games, amateur dramatics/storytelling (non-combat), and a "board game" (combat) – get over it.

And true role-playing transcends any game or system.

..At least now the "board-game" part of it isn't crap.

 

[Imaro]

Okay, quick question...why is grappling someone and stopping them from attacking devastating to game balance if an attack roll and save ends condition are attached to it. Not only is the initiating character risking wasting an action...he also does no damage, unless he lets go of the person and the save stops abuse of modifiers.

 

[EATherrian]

To be specific, "Eurogames" usually means German board games - which have gotten a lot of press in the United States in the last decade or so and are frequently exported there. The general level of abstraction in 4E certainly seems to fit...

I'm a board game nut, and I've wondered this a long time: why are Germans so dang good at making board games? So many of the best games I've played have been German. Heck, I even look for the German Game of the Year award on a game, I forget the actual name as German is not my main or best language.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Okay, quick question...why is grappling someone and stopping them from attacking devastating to game balance if an attack roll and save ends condition are attached to it. Not only is the initiating character risking wasting an action...he also does no damage, unless he lets go of the person and the save stops abuse of modifiers.

If it's a limited use power, it is probably not game-breaking. Such powers exist.

 

[The Little Raven]

Okay, quick question...why is grappling someone and stopping them from attacking devastating to game balance if an attack roll and save ends condition are attached to it.

It isn't a save ends condition. It takes an Acrobatics or Athletics check to break free, as a move action (which gives a free shift if you succeed).

An action that is available to everyone at all times being able to completely shut down a character when higher level powers aren't even as bad is definitely an issue.

 

[Mark]

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Eurogame

 

[Imaro]

It isn't a save ends condition. It takes an Acrobatics or Athletics check to break free, as a move action (which gives a free shift if you succeed).

An action that is available to everyone at all times being able to completely shut down a character when higher level powers aren't even as bad is definitely an issue.

Uhm...I was suggesting a new way to approach it and seeing what others thought...

 

[TwoSix]

Uhm...I was suggesting a new way to approach it and seeing what others thought...

Yea, your previous quote didn't indicate that at all. You said "Why is", I think you meant "Would".

 

[The Little Raven]

Yea, your previous quote didn't indicate that at all. You said "Why is", I think you meant "Would".

Exactly. It seemed like he was talking about the current rules, not suggesting a new alternative.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Uhm...I was suggesting a new way to approach it and seeing what others thought...

So, basically, a power with the Hit-Effect: Stunned (save ends)? Well, it might work as a encounter or daily power.

You have to compare it to any basic attacks (deal weapon damage + ability modifier) and bullrush (requires attack, if successful pushes target 1 square).

It is difficult to find a power that comes close to what you describe.
Otililuke's Resilient SPhere is a level 15 daily Wizard Attack Spell and lets you immobilize a foe and make him unable to attack anyone outside the sphere. It lasts as long as you sustain it, though

Infernal Moon Course is a level 7 encounter Warlock (Iinfernal) Attack spell. It immobilizes the target 5 feet off the ground until the end of your next turn.

Powers that take any opponent out of the fight are rare. The goal was to ensure that a player could always do something about his situation (in the worst case - aside from death - it's just rolling a save, but as I said, that case is rare).

If you want to continue to discuss this, I suggest forking the thread, since it leads us off-topic.