Critical Role Critical Role Campaign 4 Episode 4 is a High-Octane Rollercoaster

[JConstantine]

Tyranny is definitely a demon, not a tiefling. I watched an interview where Whitney talked about it, and she said the character concept literally started as just “I want to play a hot, pink demon,” and she said she didn’t realize at the time that demon wasn’t a playable D&D species, but that Brennan eagerly agreed to work with her to figure out a way to let her play one.

Without seeing the interview in question, I imagine Whitney meant "demon" in the general usage, not the D&D-specific "Chaotic Evil fiends from the Abyss" case. I'm sure we'll find out the extent of the homebrew as the campaign progresses, but I expect, mechanically speaking, Tyranny uses Tiefling as a baseline that was modified.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think that's just Luis himself. Having seen him play Zerxus in ExU: Calamity, Nines* in LA by Night, Eddie in Private Nightmares and now Azune; Luis doesn't seem to differentiate his characters much.

Maybe, but I don’t think it’s that. He’s constantly doing the thing where he just says his character’s internal thoughts out loud, and I actually hate that. I’m finding myself liking Azune in spite of that. It’s the little things when he’s acting in-character rather than just expositing his character’s feelings that I like. I mentioned before, but his awkward and slightly confused reactions to everything Murray does are extremely endearing. His bond with Teor and Cattigan, though straightforward, comes through in subtle nuances of his performance. I feel like if he spent less time telling us about his character’s thoughts and feelings, they would still come through because he shows it in his acting.

I think there’s also something to the idea someone else suggested that he’s probably the most grounded character, and while I normally find that uninteresting, it’s appealing in this case because the rest of the cast is so out there. Having the “regular guy” in such a group of weirdos helps anchor the group.

Without seeing the interview in question, I imagine Whitney meant "demon" in the general usage, not the D&D-specific "Chaotic Evil fiends from the Abyss" case. I'm sure we'll find out the extent of the homebrew as the campaign progresses, but I expect, mechanically speaking, Tyranny uses Tiefling as a baseline that was modified.

Well, it’s a homebrew world, so I don’t assume demons in Araman work the same way as demons in the default D&D setting assumptions. But, my point was, she’s clearly not an off-the-rack tiefling. Whether they used tieflings for a base and modified them or made a new species from scratch, her character involves homebrew either way.

 

[JConstantine]

So what exactly do you mean when you say “the OC style?” Evidently it’s not just homebrew options. You claim it’s not Taliesin as a person. It must not be playing an “arrogant prick,” cause Matt’s character doesn’t bother you in the same way. Apparently it’s not just being goth. What specifically about the way Taliesin plays do you hate so much?

Have you ever interacted with, or at least observed, the online OC community? There is an extremely common trend to make characters who are super special snowflakes. Often, but not always, Mary Sues. I can't (and won't) speak for @overgeeked, obviously, but, Taliesin's characters do have a whiff of that mentality about them.

In my experience, players gravitating to non-standard options tends to be for one of three reasons:

1. They've played everything under the sun and need something novel.
2. The have a very specific concept in mind that cannot be realised elsewise.
3. They're a poor roleplayer who uses it as a crutch to be distinct at best, and a spotlight hog at worst.

Outside of Critical Role, Taliesin's gaming has predominantly been Vampire: The Masquerade and Call of Cthulhu (to the surprise of no one), so it's definitely not the first. It's easy to look at Bolaire and attribute it to the second, but that hardly applies to the previous characters. With the exception of Caduceus, Taliesin's characters have been rather one-note; that note being "broken but well-meaning arsehole". Whilst Taliesin isn't a spotlight hog by any means, the impression I get is that he leans toward the least-standard option he can get away with precisely because he's so poor at differentiating through characterisation, while wanting his character to be unique.

Personally, I'd find Bolaire less egregious if he was a regular person unable to remove the mask because it's a cursed item granting him his Warlock powers. Though that's obviously a different character arc.

 

[Charlaquin]

Have you ever interacted with, or at least observed, the online OC community?

OC is an exonym. I have never encountered anyone who described themselves as a member of “the OC community.” I have encountered lots of people who are incredibly judgmental of anyone they deem to be part of the OC community. So, again, what specifically do you mean by “OC”?

There is an extremely common trend to make characters who are super special snowflakes. Often, but not always, Mary Sues. I can't (and won't) speak for @overgeeked, obviously, but, Taliesin's characters do have a whiff of that mentality about them.

These are not specific criticisms. We’ve already established that working with the DM to homebrew options to realize your character is not inherently “OC” (otherwise the original cleric and ranger would have been “OC”), and Bolaire is certainly not a Mary Sue in the classic sense of being a protagonist with no meaningful character flaws. So, again, what are your specific critiques of the character that lead you to identify him as “OC”?

In my experience, players gravitating to non-standard options tends to be for one of three reasons:

1. They've played everything under the sun and need something novel.
2. The have a very specific concept in mind that cannot be realised elsewise.
3. They're a poor roleplayer who uses it as a crutch to be distinct at best, and a spotlight hog at worst.

3 is the judgment I’m talking about. “Poor roleplayer” is a judgment of the human being playing the character, not a quality of the character, or even of the roleplay. What about the way the character is being portrayed do you find to be poor?

Outside of Critical Role, Taliesin's gaming has predominantly been Vampire: The Masquerade and Call of Cthulhu (to the surprise of no one), so it's definitely not the first.

We don’t know that. We know that he has played a lot of Masquerade and CoC, we don’t know that he hasn’t played a lot of D&D too. Moreover, the fact that he enjoys those games should probably be an indication that his tastes lean more macabre than the standard D&D options. That suggests a high likelihood that his interest in non-standard options comes from wanting something a bit with a bit more macabre to it than the off-the-shelf options are offering.

It's easy to look at Bolaire and attribute it to the second, but that hardly applies to the previous characters. With the exception of Caduceus, Taliesin's characters have been rather one-note; that note being "broken but well-meaning arsehole".

Seems like an extremely shallow reading of those characters to me.

Whilst Taliesin isn't a spotlight hog by any means, the impression I get is that he leans toward the least-standard option he can get away with precisely because he's so poor at differentiating through characterisation, while wanting his character to be unique.

He has a type he prefers, as in my experience do most D&D players. I would certainly not say he struggles to differentiate his characters through characterization. All five of his characters in Critical Role so far have been very different from each other in terms of voice, speech patterns, attitude, and behaviors. Bolaire does have a very similar accent to Percy, but that’s unsurprising because in both cases the voice is being used as class coding. They’re both wealthy and detached, which for various sociological reasons an RP accent tends to be an effective shorthand for. But I could easily tell all of his characters apart from each other from just a few line readings, and I’d be willing to bet most people could. And that’s before considering characters he has played in non-Critical Role actual plays, in which he has displayed plenty of range.

Personally, I'd find Bolaire less egregious if he was a regular person unable to remove the mask because it's a cursed item granting him his Warlock powers. Though that's obviously a different character arc.

This is very clearly what it comes down to. Some people think that’s too “weird” and they label Taliesin “OC” and a “poor roleplayer” to try to justify their bizarre visceral aversion to “weird” characters.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

This thread gets even more confusing if you're used to "OC" meaning "Orange County."

 

[overgeeked]

Just popping back in to say that no, Taliesin hasn't played a lot of Call of Cthulhu. At least that's what he says at the start of the Call of Cthulhu one-shot he ran a few years ago. I had no interest in Critical Role until I watched that one shot. Taliesin's grasp of the genre and the adventure won me over. His near complete lack of understanding of the rules of Call of Cthulhu, however, did not. I'm a long-time Call of Cthulhu player and referee so half the time I watched I was like "that's not how that works, but okay."

Here's the video for anyone interested. He makes it clear he's not used to the game in the first 40 seconds of the video. He also drops a great bit about H. P. Lovecraft and the genre before the credits. Worth the watch to see Travis squirm if nothing else.

 

[Charlaquin]

Just popping back in to say that no, Taliesin hasn't played a lot of Call of Cthulhu. At least that's what he says at the start of the Call of Cthulhu one-shot he ran a few years ago. I had no interest in Critical Role until I watched that one shot. Taliesin's grasp of the genre and the adventure won me over. His near complete lack of understanding of the rules of Call of Cthulhu, however, did not. I'm a long-time Call of Cthulhu player and referee so half the time I watched I was like "that's not how that works, but okay."

Here's the video for anyone interested. He makes it clear he's not used to the game in the first 40 seconds of the video. He also drops a great bit about H. P. Lovecraft and the genre before the credits. Worth the watch to see Travis squirm if nothing else.

That was an excellent one-shot, despite Taliesin's lack of familiarity with the rules of the system. Thanks for clarifying that point!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

His near complete lack of understanding of the rules of Call of Cthulhu, however, did not. I'm a long-time Call of Cthulhu player and referee so half the time I watched I was like "that's not how that works, but okay."

Yeah, this is a thing with a lot of actual plays. (The Adventure Zone is particularly bad for this.)

 

[TwoSix]

This thread gets even more confusing if you're used to "OC" meaning "Orange County."

Whenever I see the phrase “OC community” I want to post a gif of Adam Brody as Seth Cohen.

 

[Seramus]

There are definitely places where roleplaying half angel/half dragons/half gods with eyes of 2+ different colors, smirking, you can never understand the darkness of their back story... exist. In large numbers.

I'm assuming the phrase "OC community" is referring to something like this?

Taliesin does make some quirky characters, but I've never felt like he's crossed the line in any particular way. He's never been a spotlight hog, he's always laughed along with others, and cooperated in scenes.

And I personally enjoy playing odd things, mostly because I've already played everything under the sun.

I used to have a "1 Unique Race" per group rule so the party weren't a collection of complete outsiders. Now I don't even care. The choice comes with IC consequences because NPCs will react as expected, but I trust my players to do a good job with the roleplay, so bring your freaky circus to town.