D&D General Critical Role Ending

[doctorbadwolf]

Perhaps what you say is true. And someone did indeed assert that D&D 5e impedes improve less than Fate or PbtA-type games. And I disagreed with that assertion (and also expressed puzzlement that anyone would bundle Fate and PbtA together, given that they are mechanically completely different systems).

I think they got referenced in the same statement because they are both systems that mechanize things that the other poster feels are best left not mechanized if you want to encourage improvisation at the table.

Yes. But that's you as the DM deciding to make that happen. Choosing your personal logic over the story or the player's choices.

Why?
None of those people are real. No one was really traumatized. No real justice will be had by having the fictional character arrested and painfully executed by the state

The only real people are the players. The ones you're choosing to compromise for to enable and support their good time. Instead, you're declaring their choice of NPC is wrongbadfun and saying they should feel guilty for not punishing a war criminal

And I hate how chummy everyone is with Shaw despite him killing Han. And how everyone just forgave Spike for a couple seaons of BUFFY despite him being a mass murderer
Sometimes the decision you'd make as a writer doesn't match the decision the actual writer make

As someone who has cousins, coworkers, and friends of friends who’ve spent 10+ years in prison...that stuff is so painfully realistic.

 

[Maxperson]

Perhaps what you say is true. And someone did indeed assert that D&D 5e impedes improve less than Fate or PbtA-type games. And I disagreed with that assertion (and also expressed puzzlement that anyone would bundle Fate and PbtA together, given that they are mechanically completely different systems).

I don't know those games well, knowing only what you and others have said here. However, I personally don't view rules structure as an impediment to improv. I think a game can encourage improv, though. So to me, unless the rules actively state that you cannot improvise or explicitly impede it, the normal state of things is neutral or supportive of improv.

With D&D 5e, RAW explicitly states that the rules serve the DM, not the other way around. That leave the DM free to allow improv to supersede the set rules to any degree he likes. That may or may not bring it in line with or even exceed what Fate or PbtA support with regard to improvisation.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

At 3rd level an Assassin's crit damage is 2x weapon die plus sneak attack. Let's call it 6d6, or an average of 21.

In the 5e SRD the CR 1/8 guard has 11 hp, the CR 1/2 thug has 32 hp, and the CR 3 veteran has 58 hp (oddly more than the knight with the same CR).

So the chances of the critical hit killing the guard (or rendering them unconscious by reduction to zero hp) vary quite a bit depending on how the GM chooses to stat up the guard. And in the normal course of things seem to depend on making a hit roll (unless the GM waives it) and making a damage roll. Both of which use the combat rules.

So ruling that a character can make a non-combat based check to knock out a guard seems to sit oddly with the Assassin ability, as I said.

This is the part where you lose me, because that doesn’t follow. A thief rogue can knock out a guard using a stealth check and maybe a grapple. The assassin rogue can do that too, and if they fail a check an initiative is rolled they will likely still have surprise, and will still have a chance of taking down the guard in one hit, or at least taking so much of the guard’s HP that there is no real chance of a second round.

What exactly is the issue here?

And as I also said, I'm not seeing anything here that seems markedly conducive to improvisation compared to other RPGs.

In this specific example? There are many ways that “I want to silently knock out that guard” can be resolved in 5e, which IME leads to players and DMs feeling more free to just jump into play and improvise and use whatever tool feels right in a given moment.

The main thing that marks the difference between 5e and pbta style games is process mechanization vs toolkit design. Most player I know will improv more in a game where the rules are presented as a toolkit, and more DMs, especially casual or new DMs, will feel like they’re “allowed” to improv, or that they can do so without breaking their game.

 

[Iry]

Everyone knows you wake up after a few seconds of being unconscious, unless you've suffered severe brain damage.

 

[Aldarc]

It does seem to be uniquely suited to qctual play streaming, having watched non-D&D games.

Exceptionalism rarely, if ever, holds up to scrutiny.

 

[billd91]

Everyone knows you wake up after a few seconds of being unconscious, unless you've suffered severe brain damage.

Except apparently for most detective/action novel authors, screenwriters, comic book writers, and anyone who watches/reads them without delving into further research into how long people tend to stay unconscious and why...

 

[Maxperson]

Except apparently for most detective/action novel authors, screenwriters, comic book writers, and anyone who watches/reads them without delving into further research into how long people tend to stay unconscious and why...

When I was 5 I was taken roller skating. Not being very good at it, I managed to wander into the path of a woman who was skating very quickly. I remember looking over and seeing her a few feet from me with a look of horror on her face. The next thing I remember is waking up on a couch in the manager's office with 4 guys and the woman all staring down at me anxiously. Once I woke up, one of the men announced that I was okay and I went home. Took quite a bit longer than a few seconds for me to wake up.

 

[wicked cool]

im looking forward to this weeks wrapup episode. I really want to know if Mercer had an original plan and then created this monster on the fly after what happened to Molly

My theory was it was a beholder in disguise but that that theory didn't hapen

 

[Parmandur]

Exceptionalism rarely, if ever, holds up to scrutiny.

Well, can you point to any solid non-D&D streams...? I'm not saying that it is the only game that streams well (Call of Crhulu does very well, actually), but D&D is very well suited to the format, and I have seen a lot of other systems fall flat on air.

 

[robus]

To me, that adjudication seems to sit in a curious space vis-a-vis the assassin's Assassinate ability.

Except that ability comes into play during combat, and knocking someone out is completely unrelated to assassination?

IMHO, this is where assuming the combat rules are always in effect overly constrains the game (and wreck improvisation, as you noted).

Combat rules apply when a reasonably matched group of antagonists want to fight it out (The easy, medium, hard, deadly range). The DM has determined that the result of the combat encounter is uncertain and we roll initiative to ensure that everyone involved gets a chance to make their contribution to the fight.

Combats that are outside of that range are generally handwaved because the result is not in doubt. The PCs trounce their enemies or the enemies trounce the PCs resulting in a TPK or capture, DMs choice