Critique of two items

[Ferrix]

Working out some items for a powerful NPC in a campaign world and I'm wondering how you would price these items and critique them. They will be expensive and are meant to be powerful. The bracers are based off of the bracers of striking with some unique touches. More flavor text if wanted, but I'm lazy at the moment.

Moccasins of Stepping
These soft leather moccasins are plain and unadorned. The wearer of these moccasins is able to shift between one point and another at will within 50 ft. in a similar manner to a dimension door or blink spell, however the ability is manifested as a free action up to once per round. You may use this ability to avoid physical attacks, area of affect spells and targeted rays and spells, to do so completely you must succeed at a Reflex saving throw (DC 25) otherwise there is a 50% chance that you avoided the attack otherwise you move after the attack occurs. Using this ability to maneuver into position for an attack treats you as invisible to the target, they lose their Dexterity bonus to AC and you receive a +2 bonus to hit, however you are not invisible and such detect invisibility and other abilities do not negate these bonuses.

Twining Bracers
These unique bracers are elaborately carved out of white oak and inlaid with mithral, seemingly fragile, these bracers cannot be destroyed by any known means. They grant magical enhancements to natural weapons and defense. These bracers grant a +5 enhancement bonus to natural attacks (including monk’s unarmed strikes) and bestow the enhancements of impact (or keen if the natural attack is piercing or slashing), sweeping, disruption and disarming. The bracers also bestow a +3 natural armor bonus to the wearers Armor Class.

~Ferrix

 

[Guilt Puppy]

These items are pretty freakin epic, so I can't give a good baseline for gold-piece value... Probably 600k-ish apiece, but there's a certain point at which money becomes less valuable than magic items (who would possibly have the cash to buy them? and what happens when they do -- an interesting circumstance if your PCs try to sell them.)

BTW, for the moccasins, I'd change the rules a little... The Reflex then 50% chance thing seems a little odd... Might as well just make it success/failure, and lower the DC (I'd say 20)... Essentially you're just absorbing the second dice roll into the first (although it does act a little different statistically).

Also, might want to clarify the "invisibility" effect... I'd personally just state that the enemy is considered flat-footed, because there should be a moment or so to react... Let's people use their Uncanny Dodge ability if they have it, preserves the same general effect however.

 

[Ferrix]

Moccasins of Stepping
These soft leather moccasins are plain and unadorned. The wearer of these moccasins is able to shift between one point and another at will within 50 ft. in a similar manner to a dimension door or blink spell, however the ability is manifested as a free action up to once per round. You may use this ability to avoid physical attacks, area of affect spells and targeted rays and spells, to do so completely you must succeed at a Reflex saving throw (DC 20) otherwise you move after the attack. Using this ability to maneuver into position for an attack treats your opponent as flat-footed for the first attack.

I was looking at the way prices work in the back of the DMG and it doesn't seem like it would be 600k gold. That's a touch over the top. Figure it'd be a 6th level spell at least for a spell that would do this, so caster level 11th minimum, use activated x2000. So 6x11x2000 = 132,000. Seems more reasonable, I might just set it at a flat 150k.

 

[Maximillian]

I don't know about those Moccasins... they're odd. Dimension door as a free action (i.e. quickened) is an 8th level spell, not sixth. The reflex save and 50% miss chance, however, could lower it. I don't see the problem with just allowing them to cast a quickened dimension door 1/round (i.e. use activated), making them cost 240k. (8x15x2000 = 240,000) With the reflex save and the 50% chance of success (an odd mechanic indeed), you could call it 6th level, but the two die rolls and the flat footedness and the 50ft range might be too much to remember.

As for the other, formula's put it at 236,000. (The weapon bonuses add up to a +10 weapon (+5, Impact[+1], Disarming [+1], Sweeping [+1] and disruption [+2]), which is 200,000, and the natural armor bonus of +3 is 18,000 which must be doubled to 36,000 for being a second ability on the same item) That's pretty simple, but expensive.

In all, magic item creation just takes a little thought and a good knowledge of the rules. these are both severely expensive items, and cost more than even a 20th level NPC is supposed to have, according the DMG. (unless you consider the moccasins to be based on a 6th level spell) Make sure your PCs either aren't going to kill this guy, or that the items are the reward for a very lengthy adventure.

 

[Ferrix]

It's not a dimension door, it's sort of a mix between that and blink. Dimension door is 4th level and blink is 3rd level. I see it as a more refined blink that is controlled and has really nothing to do with the annoying ethereal plane. I figure twice the spell level of blink seems appropriate, also note the range. Dimension doors range is long (400 ft + 40/level) while this is limited to a maximum of a 50 ft jump.

I'm just trying to justify how I see it, I note your points but it isn't dimension door and I didn't want it to be dimension door.

~Ferrix

 

[Guilt Puppy]

Re: Re: Critique of two items

I was looking at the way prices work in the back of the DMG and it doesn't seem like it would be 600k gold. That's a touch over the top. Figure it'd be a 6th level spell at least for a spell that would do this, so caster level 11th minimum, use activated x2000. So 6x11x2000 = 132,000. Seems more reasonable, I might just set it at a flat 150k.

The "600k apiece" in my original post should read as "600k together", which is to say it should mean exactly the opposite of what it says . Looking over it again by DMG standards, I think that may be a little high... However, the only items in the DMG that approximate this power level are minor artifacts, so it's hard to gauge price like that.

(Also note, I never bother with the DMG's guidelines for magic item creation -- different spells of the same level become totally unequal in terms of power. Detect Scrying and Improved Invis may be about equally powered as spells to cast, but as permanent effects? Hardly.)

Regarding the mocassins... The fact that they can be used out-of-turn (in response to attacks et cetera) is the main reason I'd price it higher than 150k... The 50ft range and the once-per-round use are a good limit to that, but still, I wouldn't balance it quite as low as 150... Not as high as 240, either... To name a price, I'd say 192k, just to make it sound carefully calculated This still feels like a bargain the way its abilities can be exploited, but for standard use (still very powerful) it's adequate.

As far as the Bracers go... They'd be +10 equivalent as weapons, this is true, except for the fact that they effect unarmed strikes... IMO this circumvents one of the monk's major balancing limitations (and also one of the minor limitations of magic weapons -- it's a lot harder to grab bracers and use them against an opponent than it is to grab their sword, even off their dead body). I'd put the fact that it effects unarmed strikes at at least a +1 equivalent, adding another 42k to Maximillian's calculated price (coming out at 278,000).

Comes out at 470k for both... PC treasure tables are 760k for a 20th level character, if I recall correctly? (I always use PC treasure tables for truly major NPCs -- the "level bosses," you might say. A 12th-level Fighter/Cleric who you fight at the end of one of your mid-level adventures probably has more wealth and power than the 12th-level henchmen you're fighting at closer to epic levels.) So I wouldn't say it's too much for a 20th level NPC to have, provided that's just about all he has... And it should be about all he needs

Whether or not it's too much to give out as treasure also depends on what level your party is, and what they have already... For items like these I'd let them go over the limit, because while they're powerful, they're still not game-breaking by any means -- and they have that all-important flavah to them. Definitely some cool stuff, and I may have to yoink them (perhaps power them down, as I want to stop at level 20) for an NPC in my next campaign

 

[Destil]

Never rely on the formulas like that. The're just guidelines, and fall apart very quiclky when used for anything but wands, staves and potions.

http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly4.html

Monte Cook's (DMG author) magic item pricing FAQ. In general, you need to compair it to an existing item. Spells have their own limitations. It's not at all equivelent to a 6th level spell, because you can do it all day, and for a 6th level spell you would seriously need to limit the duration.

 

[Maximillian]

Guilt Puppy,
I see what you're saying about the fact that these affect fists, and I agree, but I was unsure how to swing it, seeing as how +11 items aren't possible without Epic Levels, and I wanted to avoid that.

Destil,
Considering the number of times I've disagreed with Monte Cook since he left Wizards of the coast, I've stopped reading his rules commentary. I ignore the rules for magic items more often than I follow them, but in this case it seemed like a good baseline, and ESPECIALLY in the case of magic weapon enhancements.

 

[Fade]

Moccasins: Spell is Quickened Dimension Door (8th level), minimum caster level of 15, use activacted. = 288,000 gp for the movement ability. The other looks kinda like Blink, so (5*3*2000) = 30,000, doubled for second ability, for a total ballpark figure of about 350,000 gp.

 

[hong]

If these are for a bad guy, it would do well to remember the First Rule of NPC Gear: never give an NPC an item you don't intend for the PCs to take for themselves. I would KILL to get my hands on those moccasins of stepping.


Hong "well, okay, I'd kill anyway, but that's beside the point" Ooi