cross class spells?

[alsih2o]

what are peoples opinions on cross classing spells like skills?

i am wondering because whilst walking in my garden i got what i thought was a neat idea- a druid, upon gathering a red, orange, yellow, green, blue and purple flower could seal them in a fragile terra cotta bottle/vase and then bury the small vase on a path leading to his grove.

if anyone stepped on the slightly buried bottle (maybe spot dc25-30?) color spray would be released form the bottle affecting targets and with range per the spell.

but strangely (to me) color spray is for wizards and sorcerors only. i feel that a nonlethal spell that ties in so well in a flavor way with druids should be available.

questions- am i missing some balance point? what would it cost to make such an item if the druid could cast the spell? do you let some caster cross-cast some spells?

 

[Severion]

I see no problem with your example, though there are others that i would never allow. In most cases, spell research, not something you hear about in 3E.

 

[Paladin]

Hmmmm

What about a new feat that could accomplish that? Perhaps a feat that allows a caster to pick a spell from another spell list and cast it as if it were on his list?

Or, perhaps a metamagic feat that allows spellcasters to cast cross-class spells, with a +3 level adjustment (i.e., a 6th level spell metamagicked with this new feat would take up a 9th level slot...)

Just my 2 coppers.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I don't like the idea of arcane casters casting heals though. I mean, I've seen some versions I've liked (necromatic, caster heals 1d6 but takes 1d6 stun). But in general it just goes against the grain for me.

 

[Paladin]

New Feat

I don't think this would be too terribly unbalanced - feedback appreciated.

Spell Selection [General]
Prerequisites: Any metamagic feat, ability to cast 1st level spells

Benefits: This feat allows a spellcaster to select one spell from another spellcasting spell list and use it as if it were on his spell list. The spell is cast as arcane or divine depending on caster’s class, not the list the spell comes from. If a wizard selects cure light wounds, it is an arcane spell when he casts it. Spellcasters that keep spellbooks must scribe their selected spell into their spellbook as they normally would a new spell, and the caster must provide any material components, XP, or focuses that are required by the selected spell. Note that this feat does not allow non-clerics to spontaneously cast cure spells, if a cure spell is selected.

Normal: You may only cast spells on your spell list.

Special: You may take this feat mulitple times, each time you must select a new spell.

This way an arcane caster might take this feat once, maybe twice for cure spells- I don't think it would topple a campaign world. After all, clerics get tons of wizard spells with their domain spell lists - it's kind of one-sided.

 

[Tidus4444]

Meh. This'll make Clerics run around with Fireballs and Horrid Wiltings. Not good.

 

[tarchon]

IMO, the spell lists are mainly what they are for game balance. The internal logic to them is otherwise pretty fuzzy. I wouldn't give <i>color spray</i> to druids just because it's a very powerful offensive spell for its level (better than <i>sleep</i> in some respects). The best thing is for the druid to research something that has similar visuals without the offensive capability.
Of course, I've never been very clear about how spell research is supposed to work for druids and clerics in 3E. For arcane spells, you actually need to learn a formula, and casters don't get to learn their entire spell lists as a package. If a cleric "learns" a new cleric spell, can he teach it to other clerics? Is it new prayer he learns? Is it just a special exception granted by the divine patron that only works for that particular cleric?

 

[F5]

I'm not really a fan of mixing-and-matching form spell lists, either. That the druid has a distinct spell list form the bard is important to both flavor and balance.

I do like Paladin's feat suggestion, though. Since it only grants one spell, it's not too abusive, and solves the dilemma of the player who needs "just one off-list spell" to build up their character concept.

 

[Iron_Chef]

I agree. I've seen this "pick one spell you can't normally cast and learn it" as a feat in several books from Mongose and FFG, and always thought it was a good idea. A fireball casting cleric of kossuth or some other fire god is not an unreasonable thing, IMO, and certainly full of flavor like Starburst Fruit Chew Candy.

Or a wizard with an affinity for chaos magic casting chaos hammer.

Where I would draw the line is if the spell is wildly inappropriate for the deity to grant its followers, or where the spell is exclusive to a particular deity and intent on not letting wizards poach his divine secrets. Fortunately, such a ruling falls on the DM's discretion, not the player's, everytime.

Druids casting color spray makes sense to me. Colors are a part of nature, after all! I'd love to see a druid screaming "Taste the rainbow!" and launching a color spray, LOL.

A balancing tactic one could use is that a lower level version must be researched first, such as you must take "Cure Light Wounds" before "Cure Moderate Wounds", or "Fireball" before "Delayed Blast Fireball". That uses up two feats and makes the player think hard about his choices.

 

[ergeheilalt]

A feat for a single spell sounds pretty tame. I'd consider making the minimum spell ability to cast level 2 spells and require that the spells you are learning be 1 level less then your max spell casting ability.

IE a 3rd level wizard can only take cure light wounds instead of the level 2 varient.

As an added bonus you might require a Knowlegde(nature, religion, or arcana) minimum number of ranks based on the character's class. A wizard wouldn't be able to instantly know how to cast a cure spell, but would require a bit of research on how to manipulate curative energies. Same goes for the cleric attempting to presuade their god to give them the ability to fire acid arrows or create a fireball.

Some idle thoughts

Erge