OneDnD Cross-class subclasses

cbwjm

Legend
Still waiting for the next UA for another class group, my hope is that they keep the same subclass structure so that some subclasses can fit across classes.

Some subclasses I'd like to see:
Strixhaven subclasses recreated, might even recreate them myself for a strixhaven game. I thought these were great ideas which fell flat due to the mix of levels that each class gained subclasses.

Witch. A witch subclass could be cool, taken up by a full spellcaster, different covens that have bards, clerics, druids, sorcerers, wizards, or even warlocks.

Warlord. A subclass that can be taken up by any class, I think this would be a good addition, not keen on a full class myself, but a subclass that anyone can pick up would be great.

So many subclasses from 3e could also be upgraded to cross-class subclasses considering that many of them could be entered by different classes. Not sure when we'll get the next UA, but I hope they keep the subclass level the same across all classes.
 

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Olrox17

Hero
i would also like the have cross class subclasses, but in that case, I also believe the subclass level for everyone should be level 1, not level 3. For classed like warlocks, sorcerers and to a lesser degree clerics, it would be weird not to pick your patron/origin/domain right away.

Picking subclasses at 1 would also increase design space, allowing (for example) ranger subclasses that grant the half caster progression, and others that don’t.
 

cbwjm

Legend
i would also like the have cross class subclasses, but in that case, I also believe the subclass level for everyone should be level 1, not level 3. For classed like warlocks, sorcerers and to a lesser degree clerics, it would be weird not to pick your patron/origin/domain right away.

Picking subclasses at 1 would also increase design space, allowing (for example) ranger subclasses that grant the half caster progression, and others that don’t.
I fully agree with that, but sadly I don't think that's going to be the way that WotC go.
 

I fully agree with that, but sadly I don't think that's going to be the way that WotC go.

I still think, subclass at 3 for all is great. And then I think, that every class at level 1 should have a second decision point.

For fighters we have fighting style and dex vs con.
For warlock we have partron and bond. Put the sibclass weight on bond and keep patron level 1 ability and spells.
The bard could have song of rest at 1 and could have some alternate song variants (war, nature).
The ranger could chose spellcasting or companion.
The paladin could have spellcasting or smites.
The wizard choses school at level 1 and implement later.

So this would be how I would do it most probably.
 

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
I am not sure that we will see cross class subclasses in the new release at the beginning. However, I fully expect to see them at some point but only cross class within a class group. So Expert subclasses, Mages Subclasses and so forth.
 

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
The problem with cross-class subclasses is that they cant reference a feature from its base class: for example, the current 1D&D Hunter subclass could be used on a rogue chassis, even if the levels fit, because it requires spell slots for its conjure barrage thingy.

One thing I could see is doing cross-class subclasses for multi-classing. An archetype that grants its base class part of the features of another class.

So a Fighter MC Bard could be a Fighter with the ''chanter'' archetype, giving him a few uses of Bardic Inspiration, expertise in 2 skills and 1/3 spellcasting, for example.
 

The problem with cross-class subclasses is that they cant reference a feature from its base class: for example, the current 1D&D Hunter subclass could be used on a rogue chassis, even if the levels fit, because it requires spell slots for its conjure barrage thingy.

One thing I could see is doing cross-class subclasses for multi-classing. An archetype that grants its base class part of the features of another class.

So a Fighter MC Bard could be a Fighter with the ''chanter'' archetype, giving him a few uses of Bardic Inspiration, expertise in 2 skills and 1/3 spellcasting, for example.


I'd like that as a way to multiclass. Question is: how does addong 1/3 casting to a full spellcaster...
Edit: I thought, maybe restricting mage multiclass to warriors. Warrior multiclass to mages and so on. But given that the expert group has all kinds of (non)spellcasters, it is a bit wild.
 

cbwjm

Legend
I am not sure that we will see cross class subclasses in the new release at the beginning. However, I fully expect to see them at some point but only cross class within a class group. So Expert subclasses, Mages Subclasses and so forth.
I don't think we will initially either, but hope we will at a later date, though I will homebrew pretty early on I think. I'm not sure that every cross-class subclass would fit within groups, particularly how they've divided up the classes though I can see WotC using them as the divider. Problem is some cross-class subclasses I think work well with full casters, or what I consider warriors (barbarian, fighter, paladin, ranger) and they're spread across the various groups.
 

cbwjm

Legend
The problem with cross-class subclasses is that they cant reference a feature from its base class: for example, the current 1D&D Hunter subclass could be used on a rogue chassis, even if the levels fit, because it requires spell slots for its conjure barrage thingy.

One thing I could see is doing cross-class subclasses for multi-classing. An archetype that grants its base class part of the features of another class.

So a Fighter MC Bard could be a Fighter with the ''chanter'' archetype, giving him a few uses of Bardic Inspiration, expertise in 2 skills and 1/3 spellcasting, for example.
I think it's fine not referencing a specific class feature in a subclass so I think it'll still work.

Your other idea for multi-classing though, brilliant. I'll be keeping that in mind when homebrewing some of these up. Just waiting to see if wotc stick with the same subclass structure before making some up.
 

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
I don't think we will initially either, but hope we will at a later date, though I will homebrew pretty early on I think. I'm not sure that every cross-class subclass would fit within groups, particularly how they've divided up the classes though I can see WotC using them as the divider. Problem is some cross-class subclasses I think work well with full casters, or what I consider warriors (barbarian, fighter, paladin, ranger) and they're spread across the various groups.
The reason I expect that cross-class subclasses will be restricted to the class groups is that I expect the different groups to have different subclass levels. For instance, the expert group has the subclass features at levels 3,6,10, and 14 whereas the mages might have the subclasses beginning at level 1
 

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
I'd like that as a way to multiclass. Question is: how does addong 1/3 casting to a full spellcaster...
You dont, really. Just like how in 5e you dont have two spellcasting tables if you MC two fullcaster.
With my idea, you gain access to the spell list of the multiclassed class when you level up though, plus the other 3rd level features.

Ex:

3rd - Bardic Dilettante
1/3 spellcasting, arcane spell list, divination, illusion, enchantment, transmutation only. If you already have spellcasting from another class, you instead add all D/I/E/T spells from the Arcane spell list to the list of spells you can prepare; they count as spells from your main class for the purpose of spellcasting.

3rd - Bardic Knowledge
You have Expertise in two Intelligence or Charisma skills of your choice.

6rd - Chant of Healing
You have a pool of d6s that you spend to fuel magical healing. The number of dice in the pool equals 1+ your proficiency bonus. As a bonus action, you can heal one creature you can see within 60 feet of you, spending dice from the pool. The maximum number of dice you can spend at once equals your Charisma modifier (minimum of one die). Roll the dice you spend, add them together, and restore a number of hit points equal to the total.

Your pool regains all expended dice when you finish a short rest.

10th - Inspired Success
When you or an ally within 30 ft of you use Heroic Inspiration on a d20 and the result is still a failure, the creature can retain their Heroic Inspiration.

14th - Call to Victory
When you roll initiative, all allies within 30th that of you that are not surprised have their speed increased by 10 ft, have advantage on their attack rolls during the first round on combat and if they hit with an attack during the first round, they gain 2d6 THP.
 

cbwjm

Legend
The reason I expect that cross-class subclasses will be restricted to the class groups is that I expect the different groups to have different subclass levels. For instance, the expert group has the subclass features at levels 3,6,10, and 14 whereas the mages might have the subclasses beginning at level 1
That's a good point, I'm hoping they'll keep it the same across all classes but you might be correct that the different groups will have different subclass levels.
 

Amrûnril

Adventurer
I think designing around this possibility would put too many constraints on class design. Not only would classes need to gain subclass features at the same levels, they'd also need to gain the same amount of their power from subclass features. The current classes aren't designed that way. Some, like the Paladin, gain most of their power from base class features, with subclasses providing a few flavorful additions. Others, like the Artificer, rely heavily on their subclass features to be effective in combat. I think the flexibility to take either of those approaches to class design is a good thing.

I'm also not sure I really see the point. If the subclass abilities really are independent of base class, that seems like exactly what feats are designed for. Whereas I think a good subclass design should interact with class features in a unique and synergistic way.
 

cbwjm

Legend
I
I think designing around this possibility would put too many constraints on class design. Not only would classes need to gain subclass features at the same levels, they'd also need to gain the same amount of their power from subclass features. The current classes aren't designed that way. Some, like the Paladin, gain most of their power from base class features, with subclasses providing a few flavorful additions. Others, like the Artificer, rely heavily on their subclass features to be effective in combat. I think the flexibility to take either of those approaches to class design is a good thing.

I'm also not sure I really see the point. If the subclass abilities really are independent of base class, that seems like exactly what feats are designed for. Whereas I think a good subclass design should interact with class features in a unique and synergistic way.
T largely depends on how the rest of the class UAs go for 1dnd, if they streamline the subclass features to be gained at the same rate across all classes then I think this can be done.

For me, I think there are some archetypes that could easily be spread across classes, things like warlord, swashbuckler (I'm aware the rogue subclass does interact with rogue class features), or witch that could work with multiple classes without needing to specifically reference class features. While you could make them feats, you'd need to create a feat chain to fit all the features in. I think it's better to have a subclass while keeping feats as separate points of customisation.
 

Horwath

Hero
The problem with cross-class subclasses is that they cant reference a feature from its base class: for example, the current 1D&D Hunter subclass could be used on a rogue chassis, even if the levels fit, because it requires spell slots for its conjure barrage thingy.
there is no way that will survive playtest. it's so bad
 

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
there is no way that will survive playtest. it's so bad
I would not get my hopes up. It fits the usual criteria for full approval by WotC design team:
1) It changes a rather mundane thing into a magical spell
2) Its power level is pretty bad
3) works mostly only for ranged characters, making it a non-feature for melee ranger.

I fully expect to see the Valor Bard get a new spell: Otto's Wear Medium Armor at 6th level!

:p
 

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