Cross-gender PCs

[blargney the second]

Then tell people not to portray their cross-gender characters in an offensive way.

That's a persuasive argument against gaming at cons. I'm not sure what it says about playing cross-gender/ethnicity/faith PC's.

Fair enough on all counts.

I usually have a rule against playing in games where I don't know anybody (all I need is one friend to satisfy that restriction). I decided to let it lapse for the weekend, with remarkably unfortunate results in the one game where I didn't know a single person.
-blarg

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

What if the guy played a black dude that mugged everybody, and says he's just playing in character? There's some stuff you just don't DO, and that's about the magnitude of what I saw several times at the con.
-blarg

If he's accurately playing a black guy who is a mugger- say, as commonly depicted in movies or on CSI, CSI Miami, CSI NY, Law & Order, Law & Order SVU, Law & Order Criminal Intent, NYPD Blue, The Shield, Homicide: Life on the Streets, Hill Street Blues, COPS, Jail, Lockup, your nightly news, Investigative Reports, Without a Trace, Criminal Minds, Cold Case, Cold Case Files, 90% of gangsta rap videos, or or some other show that nobody's ever heard of - I don't think I'd have a problem with it.

If, OTOH, he was playing a black guy who was a mugger who played up other stereotypes- the watermelon/fried chicken/corn on the cob eating, joint/crack smoking, bug eyed with fear, and all that other stuff you can see in Spike Lee's Bamboozled- alongside with the mugger stereotypes, I might have a problem.

The difference?

1) You can actually find actual actors of integrity willing to portray the former, not the latter. Some black actors make quite the comfortable living forever playing Mugger #3.

2) There are real black muggers out there- I know, I've taken the testimony of one or two in my day- but none was every stereotype you ever saw about blacks.

 

[Agamon]

A few people have brought up this point. There is a big difference between a DM and a PC and what a DM is able to do and a PC is able to do. I don't let my players play Dragons, but as a DM I do play the role of the NPC dragons. In the current campaign none of the PCs are allowed to play spellcasters, but as DM I am allowed to have NPC spellcasters. That one is for campaign reasons, but in either instance I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.

So, just because a DM gets to NPC cross gender has no bearings on if a PC should be able to. For the record though I've seen plenty of DMs who were pretty bad at cross gender NPCs, too. At least with the NPCs you know it's not going to be there every week for as long as the campaign is. With a PC that is not the case.

Fair enough, but both those reasons are in game, campaign reasons, like you say. The reasons in this thread for not letting male players play females is because they aren't convincing or they're immature, and the rule is a blanket "no player can do this". Does this make the DM, whoever he might be at the time, a more convincing or mature portrayer of females? Would I lose that ability going from DM to player in such a game?

It's just an odd reason. I've let players play elves, and most are pretty unconvincing, considering the lifespan and typical environment of the average elf, myself included (though I try). I can see letting no one play elves because that's how the game is, but not because people suck at pretending to be elves.

 

[Piratecat]

I'd much rather address a specific problem with a specific player, if one comes up, instead of making a blanket prohibition that prevents my players from making the kind of character they want.

 

[Tewligan]

I always have two examples that I throw in as argument against the anti-cross-gender attitudes in gaming:

Shakespeare
Monty Python

'Nuff said.

In fairness, women didn't take the stage in Shakespeare's time, so it was necessary for men to play female roles. Also, the Monty Python guys aren't exactly playing women in a subtle, realistic fashion, are they? I think it would be kind of irritating if a guy roleplayed a female PC anything close to how Python does it!

 

[Crothian]

Fair enough, but both those reasons are in game, campaign reasons, like you say. The reasons in this thread for not letting male players play females is because they aren't convincing or they're immature, and the rule is a blanket "no player can do this".

Those aren't my reasons though.

When I think of the worst PC concepts I've had player ask to play or seen played, most happen to be cross gender PCs. I've never had someone play there own gender and want to play a rape victim for instance. I recall at least five different players though that wanted to do that with cross gender characters. Those were male wanting to play females. I did see at one convention a woman who wanted to play a male stalker/rapist.

All of these have been at conventions. Some of them for games I've run other for games I've played it. For right or wrong when someone asks if they can play a cross gender PC I think of some of these horrible players and it really does leave a bad taste in my mouth. Of the not bad cross gender characters none of them ever seemed like they needed to be that way. Gender rarely mattered to the concept so there was no reason for it.

 

[Agamon]

All of these have been at conventions.

Granted, this also seems to be a common theme here. I have little experience with gaming with strangers and even less with cons, so maybe that has a lot to do with where we both come from on the subject.