Cry Foul or Fair?

[Demmero]

Foul. Oh, yeah... definitely foul.

You see, if you don't show the DM ghosts your character - but you never die, you don't use up any of your goodies, and your character still gets full XP for the session.

I ghost characters who aren't there, occasionally having them interact if absolutely needed (clerics and curing come immediately to mind). It's not particularly realistic, I know, but I've got enough to do running all the NPCs and monsters without trying to NPC an absent PC too. On the flipside, I've noticed that most character deaths and near-deaths occur when one or more player doesn't show. I try to scale back encounters a bit when possible...but if the party's supposed to fight a lone yellow musk creeper, for example, I generally have neither the time nor the inclination to substitute a different monster.

In my games, though, a no-show character is usually safe from damage, but he doesn't get any XPs for monsters/traps/obstacles overcome for that session. It was partly because of this policy of mine that I decided to run a combat-heavy session while Kastil and her hubby were on vacation.

 

[Breakdaddy]

After reading Demmero's post and seeing the other side, Ive gotta say it looks more like bad luck all the way around than anything else. Demmero appears to be going way out of his way to make things work for the PC's and the dice have been unkind. It happens. The fact that Demmero can own up to being a "softie" and all the other stuff shows he isnt afraid to take minor criticisms and is willing to work with his players. Two hallmarks of a good DM, IMHO.

 

[mmu1]

I think that in this particular situation, you should get the extra xp because it was agreed on... but if anything, I think the DM is being unfair by letting you get XP away from the gaming table.

Unless the DM actually judges the quality of your writing and its value to the campaign, and then gives out XP based on that, then this system essentially amounts to giving XP to someone as a reward for having more free time and an inclination to post on a message board.

Going that extra step to get involved in your character background should be its own reward - otherwise, people should start demanding better XP for better combat tactics, taking all the risks when finding traps, fighting in the front line, being the only one who can decipher a magical text, etc.

You should never be in a situation when a less-involved player actually has more xp, but being bitter that you're not ahead of evryone elese because you obviosuly put in so much more work strikes me as kind of petty.

 

[Kastil]

All the zombies had come from the ruins' lone stone building, one covered with vines, leaves and pretty flowers (the YM creeper itself), so they probably should have known the plant was there and should've taken it out easily, probably from a safe distance.

Well...one dead PC, one zombified PC, and one brain-damaged one (Kastil, the character, not the player later.... I was left wonder what went wrong. More EL grumbling from the players.

Actually I misunderstood some of his favorful text and thought my crossbow didn't harm the thing. Seeing a 'damsel in distress' (the paladin) I rushed in to attack. Then the dice Gods played their evil trick. I was surprised at the EL/CR but he's right on one thing. If we wouldn't have had poor rolls and such, the encounter would have been smoother.

Anyhow, Kastil knows darn well I don't know the rules for making a Diplomacy check...who ever heard of such a thing??!!
But I know Kastil's player loves her character and made him a non-traditional rogue in some skill choices.

And I'll keep doing it loveable DM. It's not like you've never done it to me in my campaign ;-)

He gives us every opportunity to win the day. I mean, everyone should have a ranged weapon but to rely on it too heavily could get you dead like the paladin prolly will be. Yes, my rogue was using his crossbow but I was in the process of sneaking around to get to the monster.

I like to joke to joke OOC but when it comes to gaming, it's more fun if it's more real. I've told Demmero to keep the 'wierd things' coming because it's much more fun than the standard orcs, goblins and those damn kobolds (I'll never forgive you for that one!). The dragon, however.... haven't I made enough enemies back in Waterdeep?

 

[drnuncheon]

So now a bloody Kastil faces a bloody and now enlarged spriggan bandit, who is demanding the party's treasure in return for sparing their lives. And of all the dirty tricks to pull, Kastil goes for a Diplomacy check to try to wheedle the spriggan into not demanding their hard-earned (and, admittedly, stingily distributed) treasure.

Maybe a successful Diplomacy check can make a nasty, evil spriggan brigand (whose only reason for lairing in the ruins is to rob passerbys in the region) walk away from his prize even though he's pretty much routed his opposition. My inclination is that it probably would not, but I'm gonna do the right thing and check the official rules for that blasted skill of Kastil's!

My inclination would be that while Diplomacy might make the spriggan like her, it probably won't convince him to leave her with all her treasure. Maybe he wouldn't rob them blind - letting them keep their weapons and equipment, maybe even helping make sure that nobody dies - but he's going to want something for his effort.

Unless, of course, he had some ulterior motive. If Kastil and her group knows of an even greater treasure that they are willing to cut he spriggan in on, or if the spriggan knows of a greater treasure that he can't go after by himself (a tomb he can't raid without backup, or a tax caravan that's too well guarded for him to take alone), then a good Diplomacy roll might convince him that the party is who he needs to put his plans into action.

BTW, where in PA are you guys? I always like to meet new gamers.

J

 

[BSF]

Hearing a little more information, I can feel for Demmero. It is hard to balance an encounter when you have a disparity between character levels. However, I almost always have a difference in character levels in my game. I have had a difference of as many as 4 levels at times, across 7 players. It is possible to make encounters that work for this, but it is a little trickier. There is also the risk of the other players not having as much fun since they run second stage to the more powerful characters. Each group will have it's own mix of personalities, so while one group might not have a problem with the difference in levels, another might.

Kastil and Demmero, perhaps exp awards are not the best reward for excellent roleplaying. Obviously, some of the reward is the joy of the creation of your character, but there may be other ways the GM can help reward that, and possibly provide encouragement to the other players.

Instead of exp, perhaps you could reward small items. Perhaps an extra potion every once in a while. Or, if that seems to valuable, or unfair to the other players, perhaps a unique trinket. Something that _would_ be worth a little money, but the character would never think of selling it. Maybe a silver and mother-of-pearl comb that, once per week, can give you a 1 hour, Social bonus to CHA. Make a Social bonus be non-applicable to combat situations. It isn't a powerful item, but a creative player will milk it for every RP opportunity available.

Perhaps hand out little things that add nice flavor and reward excellent RP. Not something that you need to hand out every week, but just every so often. Maybe that would help provide the feedback that is nice to get from the GM every so often, provide more hooks for other RP, and encourage the other players to seek out their own trivial bonuses. All without watching the exp gap increase between the characters.

 

[Bagpuss]

How is your DM awarding XP? When I DM I do it by the book totally on the CR of the opponent, task or obstacle they have over come, divide it out based on level (as in 3.5) and award it to each player.

Your roleplaying ability could be as wooden as Roger Moore or an oscar wining performance but it wouldn't make a jot of difference to the XP award you recieve. Everyone that turns up gets the same amount (assuming they are the same level).

Does your DM hand out the XP on slips of paper? or do you know for sure he has been consistantly getting less XP than you and now he appears to have the same?

 

[Kastil]

BTW, where in PA are you guys? I always like to meet new gamers.

J

I am located in Central PA. The only time I get to Pittsburgh is to see a Steelers or Penguins game and to visit my numerous relatives in the area.

As to the Diplomacy thing....seems 3.5E says it takes a full minute to do. GAH! But on the other ahdn, since we're still feeling these changes out, we're doing an emergency session this week. Seems on of the players that ran actually made their saving throw after all.

I'm not about to give my treasure up as there is little to give. The only thing that kind of irks me about the last session is I took all this equipment we found (700gp 1/2 value) and de-zombified the paladin (I play a male character and he beieves chivalry is not dead). Now because of very poor actions in combat, she is most likely dead. We definitely don't have the money for that.

 

[Kastil]

How is your DM awarding XP? When I DM I do it by the book totally on the CR of the opponent, task or obstacle they have over come, divide it out based on level (as in 3.5) and award it to each player.

Your roleplaying ability could be as wooden as Roger Moore or an oscar wining performance but it wouldn't make a jot of difference to the XP award you recieve. Everyone that turns up gets the same amount (assuming they are the same level).

Oh he hands them out according to the CRs and what not , he's just very slow at doing them. I, on one hand, can understand it a little because I do DM too but I feel at the lower levels it is crucial to divy them out sooner than later. We also use the system where we don't send xps out unless you've leveled which again is fine but that means keeping up with them too.

I mean, or wizard parleyed with a red dragon who spotted us with no where to hide and got it to go away without even having a equine snack. That to me deserves xps and Demmero and I are very similiar on how we reward the xps. Xps should also come from avoiding a situation not always just throwing yourself in the fray.

That's what I really liked about 3/3.5E. You don't just get xps for killing things. You can get them by using your many skills and sometimes those skills involve RPing not actions.

It all comes down to what the individual DM of the group wants to do. I give a small xps reward for showing up to the game and for those who actively participate in the game. I'm more of a Storyteller DM and while there are some encounters with creatures, I like to test their head more with other ways out of a situation than hack n slash.

 

[Bagpuss]

Yes I do that as well but what I don't do is individual XP awards.

Negociating round the dragon gets you the same XP as if you had fought it in my book, but that XP is shared among the party no matter who does the bulk of the roleplaying.

Same with traps the party gets the reward regardless if the rogue discovered and disabled it or the barbarian set it off and the cleric used Lesser Restoration to negate the poisons damage.

It might seem a little unfair at first, but it means no body gets penalised because the XP system doesn't suit their style of play. Plus The party stays the same level (give or take a missed week).

I don't see the need to give out additional XP rewards for roleplaying.

If your DM is doing the same thing this player who doesn't RP as much as just play the game will have the same XP as you.