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Cui Shi Class (New)
- Thread starter MINI
- Start date
If something doesn't stack that means the larger one applies only. Either way, this is even worse than the complete warrior samurai as at least that class manages to have boosts and debuffs that statistically work.
Okay, what exactly is this class suppose to be? Is it suppose to be more of a mystic serene samurai or what?
Empirate
First Post
Don't let the following criticism go to your heart. It's meant constructively and just aims to clarify what's the problem. Designing a class well is much, much harder than it looks.
Your class has good flavor, albeit borrowed. That said, mechanically your class is extremely weak. Let's compare it to a straight Fighter who goes the Bastard Sword-and-Shortsword TWF style route (side note: Fighter is the weakest base class in the PHB except for the Monk)(another side note: TWFing two dissimilar weapons is greatly inferior to using a two-handed weapon).
At 1st level, the Cui Shi has EWP: Bastard Sword (after performing a ritual), as well as another feat.
The Fighter has EWP: Bastard Sword (without performing a ritual), as well as another feat. That feat can be TWF, so he can hit his stride earlier.
At 2nd level, the Cui Shi gets TWF, which the Fighter already has. Cui Shi wouldn't take TWF at 1st with their free feat for this reason.
Fighter gets another feat as well, and is unlimited in which feat that is. Up to this point, the two are identical except for class skills; the Fighter was able to use his favored fighting style for a level longer, though.
At 3rd level, the Cui Shi gets to enchant his weapons for a very short period of time 1/day. Since Wis 16+ is very unlikely in a primary melee character, the enhancement will probably be at most a +2 for 2 rounds/day. This is quite negligible.
At 4th level, the Cui Shi gets nothing, while the Fighter gets a feat.
At 5th level, the Cui Shi draws even in feat count again; however, Quick Draw is fixed for him, while the Fighter could choose anything at 4th level. If he wanted Quick Draw (and not be limited by weapon used), he could have it much earlier, while the Cui Shi will likely wait until now or forfeit a bonus feat.
At 6th level, Cui Shi gets a feat and the ability to 'Soften the Will', which is really strange (no limit in uses/day, no range limit [!], mediocre save DC) and only usable out of combat, but just prior to a potential combat.
The Fighter gets another two feats and pulls ahead in feat count forever. One of these feats is Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, because he likes to be good at that style. He's also not interested in talking instead of fighting and just wrecks his opponents.
At 8th level, the Cui Shi gets Improved Initiative, while the Fighter gets another free feat. Again, if he wanted Improved Initiative badly (it's a good feat), he'd already have it at 4th or even 2nd level, while the Cui Shi would waste a precious bonus feat if he took it earlier.
At 10th, Cui Shi gets Mass Soften the Will with an arbitrary 10 targets/use cap and a rather short range limit, but still unlimited in uses/day. This ability looks rather powerful in the very, very few situations where it would be preferable to avoid mass combats with opponents who're already at melee range - only it isn't. See, some of the opposition will very likely make their saving throw, and attack the Cui Shi. Their friends will probably not stand idly by even if their will is 'softened'. And let's face it: how often will you have a surprise round when the (potential) enemy is already within 30' of you?
The Fighter gets an ever useful bonus feat.
At 11th, the Cui Shi gets Improved TWF. The Fighter, who is a dedicated TWFer, has already had this for 5 levels.
At 12th, the Fighter gets another bonus feat, which will probably be Greater TWF.
At 14th, the Cui Shi can Soften the Will as a move action (which is nice), and the DC is actually lowered (not improved!) by quite a bit: instead of 10 + half level + Wis, it is now 11 + 2xWis. This is bad.
The Fighter gets a Bonus Feat.
At 16th level, the Cui Shi gets Greater TWF, which the Fighter has had for 4 levels.
The Fighter gets a freely chosen bonus feat.
At 18th, the Fighter gets another bonus feat.
At 20th, the Cui Shi gets a frightful presence-like ability - a weak capstone if ever there was one, since it only affects lower-level opponents.
The Fighter gets another bonus feat - which is also an extremely weak capstone, but at least it can be useful.
To sum up: Cui Shi get only one really unique ability, Soften the Will. That ability is an incredible situational, narrowed-down version of the already mediocre Calm Emotions spell. At least it is usable at will. Other than that, Cui Shi only get a few fixed bonus feats, many of them a lot of levels later than they're needed (compare to the Ranger's Fighting Style, and you'll know what I mean).
Compared to a straight Fighter, Cui Shi is left behind by quite a bit in the versatility department. Compared to a Ranger (who gets similar fixed bonus feats), there's not even a competition, since the Ranger has better saves, much better skills, gets a pet, Favored Enemies, and SPELLS.
Bottom line: Come up with more varied and better class features, and maybe somebody will touch your class with a standard-issue 10' pole.
Your class has good flavor, albeit borrowed. That said, mechanically your class is extremely weak. Let's compare it to a straight Fighter who goes the Bastard Sword-and-Shortsword TWF style route (side note: Fighter is the weakest base class in the PHB except for the Monk)(another side note: TWFing two dissimilar weapons is greatly inferior to using a two-handed weapon).
At 1st level, the Cui Shi has EWP: Bastard Sword (after performing a ritual), as well as another feat.
The Fighter has EWP: Bastard Sword (without performing a ritual), as well as another feat. That feat can be TWF, so he can hit his stride earlier.
At 2nd level, the Cui Shi gets TWF, which the Fighter already has. Cui Shi wouldn't take TWF at 1st with their free feat for this reason.
Fighter gets another feat as well, and is unlimited in which feat that is. Up to this point, the two are identical except for class skills; the Fighter was able to use his favored fighting style for a level longer, though.
At 3rd level, the Cui Shi gets to enchant his weapons for a very short period of time 1/day. Since Wis 16+ is very unlikely in a primary melee character, the enhancement will probably be at most a +2 for 2 rounds/day. This is quite negligible.
At 4th level, the Cui Shi gets nothing, while the Fighter gets a feat.
At 5th level, the Cui Shi draws even in feat count again; however, Quick Draw is fixed for him, while the Fighter could choose anything at 4th level. If he wanted Quick Draw (and not be limited by weapon used), he could have it much earlier, while the Cui Shi will likely wait until now or forfeit a bonus feat.
At 6th level, Cui Shi gets a feat and the ability to 'Soften the Will', which is really strange (no limit in uses/day, no range limit [!], mediocre save DC) and only usable out of combat, but just prior to a potential combat.
The Fighter gets another two feats and pulls ahead in feat count forever. One of these feats is Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, because he likes to be good at that style. He's also not interested in talking instead of fighting and just wrecks his opponents.
At 8th level, the Cui Shi gets Improved Initiative, while the Fighter gets another free feat. Again, if he wanted Improved Initiative badly (it's a good feat), he'd already have it at 4th or even 2nd level, while the Cui Shi would waste a precious bonus feat if he took it earlier.
At 10th, Cui Shi gets Mass Soften the Will with an arbitrary 10 targets/use cap and a rather short range limit, but still unlimited in uses/day. This ability looks rather powerful in the very, very few situations where it would be preferable to avoid mass combats with opponents who're already at melee range - only it isn't. See, some of the opposition will very likely make their saving throw, and attack the Cui Shi. Their friends will probably not stand idly by even if their will is 'softened'. And let's face it: how often will you have a surprise round when the (potential) enemy is already within 30' of you?
The Fighter gets an ever useful bonus feat.
At 11th, the Cui Shi gets Improved TWF. The Fighter, who is a dedicated TWFer, has already had this for 5 levels.
At 12th, the Fighter gets another bonus feat, which will probably be Greater TWF.
At 14th, the Cui Shi can Soften the Will as a move action (which is nice), and the DC is actually lowered (not improved!) by quite a bit: instead of 10 + half level + Wis, it is now 11 + 2xWis. This is bad.
The Fighter gets a Bonus Feat.
At 16th level, the Cui Shi gets Greater TWF, which the Fighter has had for 4 levels.
The Fighter gets a freely chosen bonus feat.
At 18th, the Fighter gets another bonus feat.
At 20th, the Cui Shi gets a frightful presence-like ability - a weak capstone if ever there was one, since it only affects lower-level opponents.
The Fighter gets another bonus feat - which is also an extremely weak capstone, but at least it can be useful.
To sum up: Cui Shi get only one really unique ability, Soften the Will. That ability is an incredible situational, narrowed-down version of the already mediocre Calm Emotions spell. At least it is usable at will. Other than that, Cui Shi only get a few fixed bonus feats, many of them a lot of levels later than they're needed (compare to the Ranger's Fighting Style, and you'll know what I mean).
Compared to a straight Fighter, Cui Shi is left behind by quite a bit in the versatility department. Compared to a Ranger (who gets similar fixed bonus feats), there's not even a competition, since the Ranger has better saves, much better skills, gets a pet, Favored Enemies, and SPELLS.
Bottom line: Come up with more varied and better class features, and maybe somebody will touch your class with a standard-issue 10' pole.
Last edited:
Ranger19k
Explorer
Just out of curiosity, what were you going for with the naming convention for the class? The feedback regarding the comparative weakness of the class struck me as a little ironic since the name could mean "Brittle Excrement" in Chinese. I assume that wasn't your top choice, and since there could literally be hundreds of different translations of that pinyin, I assume you had something more martial in mind, but it made me laugh so I figured I'd share anyways.
Also here is the general info on the class.
Gathis Online - Encyclopedia
As far as the original name of the class I think it was loosely based on spirit warrior or sword warrior but not at all on Brittle Excrement although that was very funny.
The other thing i should add about the 'power' of the classes that it is intentionally built as a lower power class. this is because gathis is a lower powered world. When compared to the other Gathis classes such as Duelist and Reaver the Cui Shi class is intended to be on par in power with those. Straight fighters do get more but from a 2nd ed standpoint (which is where Gathis is originally based from edition wise) that would be nomrml as well. It was a time when only straight fighters could specialize for example and so the core class retained something special of its own.
Gathis Online - Encyclopedia
As far as the original name of the class I think it was loosely based on spirit warrior or sword warrior but not at all on Brittle Excrement although that was very funny.
The other thing i should add about the 'power' of the classes that it is intentionally built as a lower power class. this is because gathis is a lower powered world. When compared to the other Gathis classes such as Duelist and Reaver the Cui Shi class is intended to be on par in power with those. Straight fighters do get more but from a 2nd ed standpoint (which is where Gathis is originally based from edition wise) that would be nomrml as well. It was a time when only straight fighters could specialize for example and so the core class retained something special of its own.
Empirate
First Post
My comment wasn't entirely concerning power - it was also about the appalling blandness of most class features. Mechanically, the class just has nothing going for it, it feels generic and doesn't allow any freedom of customization. Feat- and skill-wise, two Cui Shi will probably look and play almost the same. That is something to look into.
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