Cumulative Haste/Speed House Rules:

[Tuzenbach]

Back in 1.0, I had a lot of fun taking advantage of "loop holes" in rules which allowed my naturally ambidextrous drow dart specialist a whopping 40 attacks per round if he happened to be double hasted (that's 5 attacks per arm @ 7th level or 10 attacks {darts thrown} every round x2 and x2 again!). The only real problem was how to keep hundreds of darts on his person ready for hurling, but that's another story!

Since then, however, the long arm of the DM and post 1.0 D&D has intervened with havoc. But really, I figured a good balance to the whole double hasting/potion of speed thing was the whole loss of a year on behalf of the character. Permanent aging was a pretty good deterent to over-reliance upon this technique (or so I thought).

Now, the spell (or spell effects) are no longer cumulative (or as the ultra-dumbed-down wording would have it, "stackable"), though the whole aging thing has been taken away.

Is there anybody out there that has house rules which are a suitable compromise to this? Something akin to "they're cumulative, but blah blah blah will happen to you". Anybody? Thanks!

 

[Piratecat]

But really, I figured a good balance to the whole double hasting/potion of speed thing was the whole loss of a year on behalf of the character. Permanent aging was a pretty good deterent to over-reliance upon this technique (or so I thought).

Hijack! If you were human or half-orc, I might buy this. For a drow elf, though, there's no real penalty at all. Unless you were using the "loophole" that says that magically aging triggers system shock or die. You were rolling system shock every time you were magically aged, right?

It isn't what you're looking for, necessarily, but check out the halfling skiprock champion at Rich Burlew's Giant in the Playground games... they get a ton of attacks. Best D&D comics on the internet, too!

http://www.giantitp.com/Func0001.html

 

[Plane Sailing]

Is there anybody out there that has house rules which are a suitable compromise to this? Something akin to "they're cumulative, but blah blah blah will happen to you". Anybody? Thanks!

A suitable compromise can be drawn from comparison with another spell that used to age you in 1e. IIRC a wish aged you 5 years, haste aged you 1 year.

So a suitable compromise would be for haste to cost you 1000xp each time you cast it (if it remained stackable in the way you describe)

(as Piratecat says, ageing was no penalty to long lived races. I seem to remember reading one of the designers saying that this was the main reason that it was removed as a penalty when they created 3e.)

 

[BSF]

Heh - 1000 exp/casting to stack Haste. Heck, I might institute that just for grins. Imagine the player's surprise when he is targeted by a dispel magic. It could be priceless!

 

[Tuzenbach]

Well, one of the aging parameters that I just "assumed" existed was that if one application is used, the recipient ages a year. If it's doubled, then two years. Tripled would be four years and quadrupled (really silly speed, something like 160 thrown darts if you can find a way to keep that many on your person) would be eight years. But still, that's not very adequate.

I like the Constitution idea put forth by PirateCat, though. It makes sense that a more delicate being would be more suseptable(sp) to adverse effects of haste. Maybe:

CON:

19 or higher = lose a year

17/18 = lose two years

15/16 = lose three years

13/14 = lose four years

11/12 = lose five years

etc...........





OR







Every time a character is hasted he has to roll his CON on a d20 or lose a year. Double haste would mean double the chance for losing a year. So if a character with a 15 CON is hasted, he has a 75% chance of losing a year, but if he's double hasted (or drinks two potions of speed simultaneously) he has to roll a 20 or......OK. Now I'm just lost.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think you missed the point of Piratecats post - if you failed the system shock percentage *you died*.

Ageing by years is meaningless as a balancing factor because of long-lived races, and really has no place in the game.

 

[Piratecat]

Yup. Dead, dead, dead. A 3e equivalent might be a DC 15 massive damage save or death.

 

[Kemrain]

That is gruesome.. On the lines of Stat Damage and guaranteed Sanity damage for casting spells. I like it!

We need more effects like that in Core DnD. More unneseccary deadliness.

"I cast Fireball."

"Okay, you take *rolling* 4 poits of strength, 5 points of Sanity, and, oh, make a Fort save, DC, oh, I dunno... 16."

"I rolled a six..."

"Well, roll two more and that's an eighteen. Have a new character sheet. Your fireball goes off centered on you. Everyone within radius, make Reflex saves..."

- Kemrain the Dead, dead, dead.

40 attacks in one round is just wrong. I mean, "Get out of my house" wrong. "Do not resuscitate" wrong. "I can't come up with anything witty to say" wrong. It just hurts my soul.

Good job.

 

[Tuzenbach]

Remember, they're only DARTS! And whose to say all 40 would hit? It was something I reserved when the DM would all of a sudden foist some uber-powered monster upon us who could only realistically be hit by rolling a 20. My thinking was that with 40 attacks per round I'd at least hit him twice (about 8-9 damage) before I ran out of darts or was breath weaponed to death. Other than that, I don't think 40 attacks per round with darts would have saved me if I had to all-of-a-sudden fight 40 friggin' kobolds!

 

[Tuzenbach]

I think you missed the point of Piratecats post - if you failed the system shock percentage *you died*.

Ageing by years is meaningless as a balancing factor because of long-lived races, and really has no place in the game.

No, I understood it, I just refused to accept it! I think you missed MY POINT, however, about how system shock & all that are basically derived from Constitution. I think death is a little extreme, but perhaps some sort of compromise can be reached which would be Constitution-dependent. My brain won't work right now, but I'm sure there are more suitable alternatives to death. A coma, perhaps? Or maybe a special table for "speed freaks" akin to the old psionics tables (you know, when losing a psionic duel?) when speed & haste attempts are stacked. I think I've just assigned myself a sutiable weekend project!