Cure Minor on self when disabled

[RuminDange]

Replace "Unless" with the definition…do you still think you take the 1 point of damage afterward?

Disabled: A character with 0 hit points, or one who has negative hit points but has become stable and conscious, is disabled. A disabled character may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can she take full-round actions). She moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesn’t risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the DM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell) deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Except on the condition that the action increased the disabled character’s hit points, she is now in negative hit points and dying.
A disabled character with negative hit points recovers hit points naturally if she is being helped. Otherwise, each day she has a 10% chance to start recovering hit points naturally (starting with that day); otherwise, she loses 1 hit point. Once an unaided character starts recovering hit points naturally, she is no longer in danger of losing hit points (even if her current hit points are negative).

or

Disabled: A character with 0 hit points, or one who has negative hit points but has become stable and conscious, is disabled. A disabled character may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can she take full-round actions). She moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesn’t risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the DM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell) deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Except under the circumstances that the action increased the disabled character’s hit points, she is now in negative hit points and dying.
A disabled character with negative hit points recovers hit points naturally if she is being helped. Otherwise, each day she has a 10% chance to start recovering hit points naturally (starting with that day); otherwise, she loses 1 hit point. Once an unaided character starts recovering hit points naturally, she is no longer in danger of losing hit points (even if her current hit points are negative).

You can read it however you like and be a Rules-Lawyer as much as you want? But is it really worth that much trouble to nit-pick a sentence to death over the meaning of a word? That for some strange reason has different meanings to different people.

Unless, that is, except on the condition that you are using a different dictionary or educational background that gives “Unless” a new meaning; UNLESS MEANS AN EXCEPTION FOLLOWS. How can you get anything else but an exception? An action that increases the disabled character’s hit points is an exception to the rule of losing a hit point.

Please show where “unless” has a new meaning other than an exception.

RD

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Because the round is over by the time you have finished casting the spell.

Why?

I get a Standard Action and a Move Action every round.

When I'm disabled, I can take one or the other.

If I cast CMW, it's a standard action and, not only am I not disabled any more, I never was (by your reading).

Why, then, do I not get my remaining Move Action?

 

[KarinsDad]

You can read it however you like and be a Rules-Lawyer as much as you want? But is it really worth that much trouble to nit-pick a sentence to death over the meaning of a word? That for some strange reason has different meanings to different people.

So, it is nitpicking if someone has an interpretation differently from you, but your interpretation is not nitpicking?

Unless, that is, except on the condition that you are using a different dictionary or educational background that gives “Unless” a new meaning; UNLESS MEANS AN EXCEPTION FOLLOWS. How can you get anything else but an exception? An action that increases the disabled character’s hit points is an exception to the rule of losing a hit point.

Please show where “unless” has a new meaning other than an exception.

"Unless your activity increased your hit points, you are now at –1 hit points, and you're dying."

Regardless of which interpretation you use (you are at 0 after a cure minor, or you are at 1 after a cure minor), you are NOT at -1 hit points if you healed yourself. Hence, the "unless" sentence holds true REGARDLESS of which interpretation you use.

So, the "unless" argument has nothing to do with the discussion at all and is merely a red herring in an attempt to muddy the waters.

 

[RigaMortus]

Now, being treated "as if you never WERE disabled" is not meant to be applied retroactively. It is meant to be applied PROactively. It does not turn back the clock to the when you first became disabled and then replay every round since that occurred.

I agree with this. If it were to "turn back the clock" (as you put it) then one could argue that you now get an extra move action, because normally you get a move and a standard, and since it was as if you never were disabled, you should now be entitled to that move action. That would be "turning back the clock" and I don't think anyone is advocating that.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

This "discussion" is starting to get a little testy on both sides of the fence. Getting into elements of prejudicial language, ad hominems, and moralizing. Do we want to get heated over one hit point?

--fje

 

[RuminDange]

So, it is nitpicking if someone has an interpretation differently from you, but your interpretation is not nitpicking?

Nope, as I said you can read it anyway you like. The nitpicking is in reference to back and forth about this sentence over the meaning of a word. Now it seems you are misinterpreting my sentence?

"Unless your activity increased your hit points, you are now at –1 hit points, and you're dying."

Regardless of which interpretation you use (you are at 0 after a cure minor, or you are at 1 after a cure minor), you are NOT at -1 hit points if you healed yourself. Hence, the "unless" sentence holds true REGARDLESS of which interpretation you use..

"Unless you activity increased you hit points" is clearly the exception. You pause on the comma, decide if the condition of the exception is met and then do the remaining. Sort of a logical decision much like in programming. If HitPoints <= 0 and action=standard then hitpoints = hitpoints - 1. You don't apply the condition if the exception is met.

So, the "unless" argument has nothing to do with the discussion at all and is merely a red herring in an attempt to muddy the waters.

Actually it has everything to do with discussion and the only red herring is your constant misinterpretation of what is written whether by those that disagree with you or the SRD.


RD

 

[RigaMortus]

I don't beleive that anyone quoted the glossary yet, so allow me. Some of the wording is slightly different, though I am not sure if it will matter.

disabled: At exactly 0 current hit points, or in negative hit points but stable and concious. A disabled character may take a single move action or standard action each round(but not both, nor can she take full-round actions). She moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesn't risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the DM deems stenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell) deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Unless the action increased the disabled character's hit points, she is now in negative hit points and dying.

The last sentence is slightly different from:

Unless your activity increased your hit points, you are now at -1 hit points, and you are dying.

 

[KarinsDad]

Actually it has everything to do with discussion and the only red herring is your constant misinterpretation of what is written whether by those that disagree with you or the SRD.

How?

With the "you are at 0 hit points at the end of the round" interpretation, the "Unless your activity increased your hit points, you are now at -1 hit points, and you are dying." sentence is a true statement.

With the "you are at 1 hit point at the end of the round" interpretation, the "Unless your activity increased your hit points, you are now at -1 hit points, and you are dying." sentence is a true statement.

How does this sentence affect the discussion of whether you should be at 0 or 1 hit points at all since regardless of interpretation, this is a true sentence for both interpretations?

If it is true for both interpretations, how can it lend itself to support one interpretation over the other?

 

[RuminDange]

How?

With the "you are at 0 hit points at the end of the round" interpretation, the "Unless your activity increased your hit points, you are now at -1 hit points, and you are dying." sentence is a true statement.

With the "you are at 1 hit point at the end of the round" interpretation, the "Unless your activity increased your hit points, you are now at -1 hit points, and you are dying." sentence is a true statement.

If you started the round with 0 hit points and if your activity was use to increase your hit points with CMW, you would therefore end the round with 1 hit point due to the exception being met. Again, you would not lose a hit point for the activity due to the exception being met. Therefore both interpretations cannot be true unless you have a different meaning of "Unless". You cannot take the paragraph and apply each sentence one at a time when you desire to determine the final outcome. You also have to take each sentence in relation to other and apply them together.

How does this sentence affect the discussion of whether you should be at 0 or 1 hit points at all since regardless of interpretation, this is a true sentence for both interpretations?

If it is true for both interpretations, how can it lend itself to support one interpretation over the other?

I believe I just pointed that out yet again. You still have not shown a different meaning for the exception clause of the paragraph.

RD

 

[Andur]

Capn, I don't think you understand what double spaced paragraphs mean within a technical document.

Words mean things.

In the end, it's just a game. Play it your way. As long as everyone is having fun, nobody will get hurt.