Cure Minor on self when disabled

[KarinsDad]

KarinsDad: You are completely missing RuminDange's (and my original) point. The reason it isn't making sense to you is because it seems as if you're focusing on the wrong part of the quote/unqote "exception clause". What he and I believe is that any act you perform while disabled deals 1 damage to you. Unless that act is any action that heals you.

And, I would agree with this if that is what the "unless" sentence says.

The "unless" sentence doesn't say anything of the sort.

It says (paraphrased) that you are dying if you perform a strenuous action that does not heal you.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

It doesn't mention in any way, shape, or form, what happens if you DO heal yourself. It only talks about what happens if you perform a strenuous action which does not heal you.

Could you explain to me HOW you interpret it to mean something else? I have read the earlier posts, but they must not be written in a manner for me to get it.

The reason we (OK, I won't presume to speak for anyone else) - I - feel this way, is because the sentence following the 'take 1 damage' line is utterly useless if it didn't point out that healing actions were an exception to the rule. They don't need to tell me that if I'm at 0 and take 1 damage I will then be at -1 damage. Pointless. Redundant. Useless. You don't put reminder text for a rule in the very next line after the rule was originally stated.

Ok, I understand WHY it bothers you. I still do not understand why you want to read more than what is written there.

Redundancy occurs a LOT in the rules.

In the Sleep spell, it states that you are helpless. No need for it since the Helpless condition in the DMG already states Asleep.

In the Diabled section, it states that you are dying if you perform a strenuous action that does not heal you when you are disabled. No need for it since the Disabled condition in the DMG already states dying if you go to -1.


But, read this disabled section carefully. Dying is only mentioned once here with regard to taking damage for a strenous action. ONCE. It is not redundant to mention something once in a few paragraph section. The "unless" sentence has one and only one use here: to tell people what happens if you perform a strenuous activity. It is not redundant, it is necessary.

"When your current hit points drop to exactly 0, you’re disabled.
You can only take a single move or standard action each turn (but not both, nor can you take full-round actions). You can take move actions without further injuring yourself, but if you perform any standard action (or any other strenuous action) you take 1 point of damage after the completing the act. Unless your activity increased your hit points, you are now at –1 hit points, and you’re dying.
Healing that raises your hit points above 0 makes you fully functional again, just as if you’d never been reduced to 0 or fewer hit points.
You can also become disabled when recovering from dying. In this case, it’s a step toward recovery, and you can have fewer than 0 hit points (see Stable Characters and Recovery, below)."

 

[RuminDange]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RD, "Wrong" Version
Taking move actions doesn't risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the DM deems stenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell) deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act unless the action increased the disabled character's hit points. Otherwise, she is now in negative hit points and dying.

I fail to see where I ever posted that. I would greatly appreicate it that you do not credit me with something I did not say. Thank you.

 

[RigaMortus]

What happens if I am at 0 and cast a spell that gives me temporary hit points (such as Virtue or Aid)?

What happens if I cast a spell or take some strenuous action that increases my Con (netting me only +1 hit points) while I am disabled?

Taking move actions doesn't risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the DM deems stenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell) deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act.

If I have damage reduction, does it absorb this 1 point of damage I take?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I fail to see where I ever posted that. I would greatly appreicate it that you do not credit me with something I did not say. Thank you.

Check you last post, RD.

You posted:

If your action increase your hit points you would not lose a hit point.

Taking move actions doesn’t risk further injury, but performing any standard action (...) deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Unless the action increased the disabled character’s hit points

Sentence works without unneeded clarification on the end that is there to stress the fact that you lose a hit point otherwise.

The only addition I made was the rest of the text and the "Otherwise."

In other words, you're still wrong.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I fail to see where I ever posted that. I would greatly appreicate it that you do not credit me with something I did not say. Thank you.

Well... to be fair, you have suggested that meaning repeatedly.

The only way the 'unless' can apply to the taking-a-point-of-damage is if the full stop between them is removed, as Patryn illustrated.

So every time you've said that the unless does apply to the taking-a-point-of-damage, you've suggested that you're reading it without the full stop.

The only statement affected by fulfilling the 'unless' condition is "You are at -1 and dying". Nothing else.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

What happens if I am at 0 and cast a spell that gives me temporary hit points (such as Virtue or Aid)?

You get the temporary hit points, and take a point of damage. Damage comes off temporary hit points first.

What happens if I cast a spell or take some strenuous action that increases my Con (netting me only +1 hit points) while I am disabled?

Your max and current hit points increase by 1 (giving you a current total of 1), and you take a point of damage (dropping you back to 0 and disabled).

If I have damage reduction, does it absorb this 1 point of damage I take?

"The numerical part of a creature’s damage reduction is the amount of hit points the creature ignores from normal attacks."

The damage isn't from an attack, so DR doesn't apply.

-Hyp.

 

[RuminDange]

In other words, RD, you're more than happy to play around with the rules of the English language to twist the text to mean what you want it to.

It is not I that is playing around with the rules of the english langauge or attempting to twist the text to mean what I want it to. This is how I read it when I read it. I tend to analyze many things and if the second sentence of the two is there only to stress the fact that you lose a hit point it is unneeded and a bad use of the "unless" to start it with since that implies an exception to what was just stated prior it.

Fine, do so, but don't presume that it's somehow correct.

I presume nothing.

Therefore, by grouping the sentences as you have decided to do, you are changing that which is written.

By grouping the sentences as they should be done, I have clarified the meaning. By you and others looking at each sentence separately as some sort of stand alone statement, you have confused what is being said and defend your position with determination. You write a paragraph put forth a series of one or sentences that are related in some way and each expand on the other. If were need to read this paragraph they way that many are interpret it then each sentence needs to be its own paragraph.

RD

 

[Hypersmurf]

By grouping the sentences as they should be done, I have clarified the meaning. By you and others looking at each sentence separately as some sort of stand alone statement, you have confused what is being said and defend your position with determination. You write a paragraph put forth a series of one or sentences that are related in some way and each expand on the other. If were need to read this paragraph they way that many are interpret it then each sentence needs to be its own paragraph.

Huh?

"If you pay a hundred dollars, you get a room for the night. Unless you pay an extra ten dollars, breakfast is not included."

Does this mean that if I do pay an extra ten dollars, I don't get a room for the night?

After all, I could read this: "If you pay a hundred dollars, you get a room for the night. Unless you pay an extra ten dollars." Since the "Breakfast is not included" stands by itself.

... right?

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

By you and others looking at each sentence separately as some sort of stand alone statement, you have confused what is being said and defend your position with determination.

In English, we have a word for "stand alone statements." It's "sentences."

 

[RuminDange]

Well... to be fair, you have suggested that meaning repeatedly.

-Hyp.

Suggested it maybe, that I can accept, stated it, I did not. They are not the same thing when quoting someone.

RD