D&D 5E Curse of Strahd and Paladin's Divine Sense

[persippe]

Hi,

sorry if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find anything related.

I'll start playing Curse of Strahd tomorrow evening, and we all have (DM and players) many doubts about the Divine Sense paladin classe features.

It explicity says that using it in 60 feet of Strahd (or any other celestial/fiend/undead), you'll know it's location and tpe, though not it's identity....

DM says he didn't find any modification in the adventure.

So it's enough that when we'll eventually meet Strahd, our paladin will activate Divine Sense and know for sure it's an undead? (coming from AD&D 2nd ed. Ravenloft, it sounds weird to me)

thanks for your answers

Nick

 

[Bayushi Seikuro]

I haven't read it, but I remember Ravenloft back in the day had MANY MANY modifications to special abilities, specifically ones that would allow you to detect evil or to basically locate the source of the danger. The demiplane loved chaos and evil and loved tricking you. Or maybe I'm just sadistic.

 

[Oofta]

As the power states, you would know there were undead in the area, but not specifics and it's blocked by total cover. I wouldn't be surprised if Strahd had special abilities, but they are just giving an example of the most widely known vampire from D&D's history.

 

[GX.Sigma]

I'll start playing Curse of Strahd tomorrow evening, and we all have (DM and players) many doubts about the Divine Sense paladin classe features.

It explicity says that using it in 60 feet of Strahd (or any other celestial/fiend/undead), you'll know it's location and tpe, though not it's identity....

Correct.

...So what's the problem?

 

[persippe]

As the power states, you would know there were undead in the area, but not specifics and it's blocked by total cover. I wouldn't be surprised if Strahd had special abilities, but they are just giving an example of the most widely known vampire from D&D's history.

The power states: "you know the location of any celestial, fiend or undead within 60 feet of you that is not behind total cover"

RAW I understand that the DM can never EVER put in front of you a disguised fiend or undead, which could be fine in Forgotten Realms but weird in Ravenloft, IMHO.

 

[persippe]

Correct.

...So what's the problem?

The problem is that in previous edition of Ravenloft, powers and spells were modified so that the players could never know for sure if Strahd, Azalin, Lord Soth etc. were undead.

I'd like to understand if they really dropped all this aspect

 

[GX.Sigma]

The problem is that in previous edition of Ravenloft, powers and spells were modified so that the players could never know for sure if Strahd, Azalin, Lord Soth etc. were undead.

I'd like to understand if they really dropped all this aspect

Yes, they did. They don't want different worlds to alter the standard rules too much. Even the Outer Planes (which in 2e had pages and pages of spell alterations, magic item alterations, cleric caster level modifications, etc.) just have "one simple trait that players notice, that doesn't create too much complication at the gaming table, and that's easy to remember" (DMG 43).

Though Strahd is a strong enough wizard to cast Nystul's magic aura if that's important to you.

 

[Bayushi Seikuro]

Yes, they did. They don't want different worlds to alter the standard rules too much. Even the Outer Planes (which in 2e had pages and pages of spell alterations, magic item alterations, cleric caster level modifications, etc.) just have "one simple trait that players notice, that doesn't create too much complication at the gaming table, and that's easy to remember" (DMG 43).

Though Strahd is a strong enough wizard to cast Nystul's magic aura if that's important to you.

Well, the confusion for older players is that in previous editions, even if you went by the 5e rule that planes only have 'one special trait', Ravenloft's special trait was that the realm itself was conscious and could make detection/augury/identification spells give whatever result the realm chose to. For instance, Detect Evil was absolutely useless because it was staring into the sun -- EVERYWHERE around you was evil, and detected as such.

Without having read it yet, I think the confusion is why they would change such a core setting element.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Well, the confusion for older players is that in previous editions, even if you went by the 5e rule that planes only have 'one special trait', Ravenloft's special trait was that the realm itself was conscious and could make detection/augury/identification spells give whatever result the realm chose to. For instance, Detect Evil was absolutely useless because it was staring into the sun -- EVERYWHERE around you was evil, and detected as such.

Without having read it yet, I think the confusion is why they would change such a core setting element.

This was not a thing in the original. Remember, this is a remake of a 1e dungeon module, not a return to a 2e campaign setting.

 

[Satyrn]

If someone in your group doesn't already know that Strahd's a vampire, then the paladin's ability detecting it in him ought to be played up as a "moment."

It's a good way to get that info to the players. Am excellent way really, since it's coming from the players themselves instead of being fed to them by an NPC, or just stumbling onto it.

 

[Oofta]

The power states: "you know the location of any celestial, fiend or undead within 60 feet of you that is not behind total cover"

RAW I understand that the DM can never EVER put in front of you a disguised fiend or undead, which could be fine in Forgotten Realms but weird in Ravenloft, IMHO.

A simple Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location (you are hidden from divination magic and scrying) would stop the detection in my world. Some people may argue that a paladin's divine sense is not technically labeled divination magic, so it's just my ruling.

 

[5Shilling]

In previous versions Strahd managed to keep his vampirism fairly secret (somehow!) In Curse of Strahd most Barovians know that he is a vampire, he is just too powerful for them to do anything about it. So Divine Sense won't tell the Paladin anything about Strahd that everyone doesn't already know.

 

[Fanaelialae]

The power states: "you know the location of any celestial, fiend or undead within 60 feet of you that is not behind total cover"

RAW I understand that the DM can never EVER put in front of you a disguised fiend or undead, which could be fine in Forgotten Realms but weird in Ravenloft, IMHO.

Given that even with a 20 Charisma a paladin only has 6 uses a day, it seems unlikely that the PCs are using it on every NPC they meet. If they are, sprinkle in a few extra red herring NPCs.

The way I would handle a paladin detecting Strahd is to have the evil nearly overwhelm his senses, as if a dark and malevolent god was manifest before him. Strahd is a domain lord after all, so I wouldn't have him detect merely as a "common" undead.

 

[GX.Sigma]

In previous versions Strahd managed to keep his vampirism fairly secret (somehow!)

Do you mean "in one previous version?" In the original, everyone knows he is a vampire.

 

[BloodAsp]

To clarify, I am the paladin in question and I'd like to add a consideration: if your master is, say, running an adventure where a vampire is hiding in a village and killing townspeople, what stops the paladin from just gathering the villagers and using detect evil? It would make sense on Faerun, but on Ravenloft it's a bit meh.
To elaborate, since there are as of now no rules about it, how would you handle it?

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Yes, for a round your character might be able to detect death before it claims them.

 

[GX.Sigma]

To clarify, I am the paladin in question and I'd like to add a consideration: if your master is, say, running an adventure where a vampire is hiding in a village and killing townspeople, what stops the paladin from just gathering the villagers and using detect evil? It would make sense on Faerun, but on Ravenloft it's a bit meh.
To elaborate, since there are as of now no rules about it, how would you handle it?

I'd allow it, seeing as how that's the whole point of that ability. A vampire is easily detectable by other means (sunlight hypersensitivity, skin color, fangs, lack of normal biofunctions, no alibi for the night of the murder, keeps a coffin in his house, etc.), so I don't think it would really break the game.

 

[BloodAsp]

Yes, for a round your character might be able to detect death before it claims them.

Well, nicely put, yet doesn't help playing Dnd much really

 

[Lillika]

5e doesn't have as many rules for every situation as other edition may have had. It is a much more DM's opinion on this. So first off, I think they left Curse of Strahd to be in the hands of the GM for how to handle specific situations.
Second, having pretty read it. It is very clear to the adventures that Strahd is a vampire, if that is the question, they can pretty much get this from the opening event in the town. As for paladins being able to tell who is a vampire with their ability, as the module goes, I don't see this changing anything. But, due to the very flexible nature of DnD and 5e for that matter, whatever the DM and hopefully the players feel the most comfortable with go with it.

 

[BloodAsp]

5e doesn't have as many rules for every situation as other edition may have had. It is a much more DM's opinion on this. So first off, I think they left Curse of Strahd to be in the hands of the GM for how to handle specific situations.
Second, having pretty read it. It is very clear to the adventures that Strahd is a vampire, if that is the question, they can pretty much get this from the opening event in the town. As for paladins being able to tell who is a vampire with their ability, as the module goes, I don't see this changing anything. But, due to the very flexible nature of DnD and 5e for that matter, whatever the DM and hopefully the players feel the most comfortable with go with it.

Yeah I just don't want to be disruptive, that's all.