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D&D 5E Curse of Strahd spoiler-filled general discussion
- Thread starter Mouseferatu
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I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
I'm going to use the Amber Temple, but I'm not going to have these things be the Dark Powers. They're just vestiges of power trapped in Ravenloft. How did Strahd become a vampire? NOBODY KNOWS AND IT WILL STAY THAT WAY.
Personally, I'm having problems with roping the PC's into Death House as an intro. "The mists make you do it" is so heavy-handed and arbitrary, starting the adventure like that is a clear indicator that the DM is basically going to Make You Adventure, so either go along with the plan or look for another game. BOOOOO.
The third "seed" is left deliberately ambiguous. I dunno if that's because they have plans for it, or because they want to give DMs some room to make plans for it.
Personally, I'm having problems with roping the PC's into Death House as an intro. "The mists make you do it" is so heavy-handed and arbitrary, starting the adventure like that is a clear indicator that the DM is basically going to Make You Adventure, so either go along with the plan or look for another game. BOOOOO.
The third "seed" is left deliberately ambiguous. I dunno if that's because they have plans for it, or because they want to give DMs some room to make plans for it.
evilbob
Adventurer
Couple thoughts:
Absolutely right about the module encouraging you to head straight to the castle. I figured I'd handle that by having Strahd show up on the road and beat the crap out of them and laugh and fly away. That should make them realize they need more stuff. Also, emphasize Madame Eva. She tells them all the things they need to gather first.
THANK YOU for the thoughts on the Amber Temple. Not only is it a high-level dungeon crawl with lots of weird NPCs, MULTIPLE liches, anti-thematic, and full of loot (every single spell in the PHB, for starters), it was also filled with tons of detail that any non-evil party will likely never, ever see. That whole section confused me, too. Easy enough to skip it. (And the side quest to bring back the evil woman? It seemed excessively difficult and unlikely. I feel like the Amber Temple is more like: ok, you won, but you love the campaign and want more? Here's more!)
Fighting Strahd is always very, VERY tricky. When I did this back in the 3.5 days it was always sadly super-binary: either Strahd got off his dominate and the battle was lost, or the cleric turned him and he was dead. I agree that constant hit-and-run can get tiring. Heck, a LOT of the castle can get tiring; it's such a huge dungeon and there's only so long you can go at "max tension" before it's just not fun anymore. I ended up cutting huge swaths of the 3.5 castle (which was also BIGGER) because it just got boring for all of us. The countryside was more interesting because it was always something new and different. The castle was just the same - constant traps trying to kill you, lots of save-or-dies, etc. This time around the castle is smaller and seems better regulated. There's also many more reasons to go there, leave, and come back later. I feel like that's how the adventure may have always been intended; you need to leave and come back a few times to break it up.
This time around I'm actually worried that the campaign will peter out before they even GET to the castle. I mean, besides the fact that levels 1-10 is a HUGE campaign already, there's SO MUCH STUFF. I guess they made it so that you could always re-run it and never do all the same stuff (since the cards will send you to random places all over) but it's so big that I doubt someone is really going to run levels 1-10 over and over just for different stuff.
Absolutely right about the module encouraging you to head straight to the castle. I figured I'd handle that by having Strahd show up on the road and beat the crap out of them and laugh and fly away. That should make them realize they need more stuff. Also, emphasize Madame Eva. She tells them all the things they need to gather first.
THANK YOU for the thoughts on the Amber Temple. Not only is it a high-level dungeon crawl with lots of weird NPCs, MULTIPLE liches, anti-thematic, and full of loot (every single spell in the PHB, for starters), it was also filled with tons of detail that any non-evil party will likely never, ever see. That whole section confused me, too. Easy enough to skip it. (And the side quest to bring back the evil woman? It seemed excessively difficult and unlikely. I feel like the Amber Temple is more like: ok, you won, but you love the campaign and want more? Here's more!)
Fighting Strahd is always very, VERY tricky. When I did this back in the 3.5 days it was always sadly super-binary: either Strahd got off his dominate and the battle was lost, or the cleric turned him and he was dead. I agree that constant hit-and-run can get tiring. Heck, a LOT of the castle can get tiring; it's such a huge dungeon and there's only so long you can go at "max tension" before it's just not fun anymore. I ended up cutting huge swaths of the 3.5 castle (which was also BIGGER) because it just got boring for all of us. The countryside was more interesting because it was always something new and different. The castle was just the same - constant traps trying to kill you, lots of save-or-dies, etc. This time around the castle is smaller and seems better regulated. There's also many more reasons to go there, leave, and come back later. I feel like that's how the adventure may have always been intended; you need to leave and come back a few times to break it up.
This time around I'm actually worried that the campaign will peter out before they even GET to the castle. I mean, besides the fact that levels 1-10 is a HUGE campaign already, there's SO MUCH STUFF. I guess they made it so that you could always re-run it and never do all the same stuff (since the cards will send you to random places all over) but it's so big that I doubt someone is really going to run levels 1-10 over and over just for different stuff.
evilbob
Adventurer
Another concern, for me anyway: constant random encounters get really, really old. Even this time they limited it to effectively not more than 2 in 12 hours, but WOW that's a lot of encounters. The 3.5 version was even worse of course, which I quickly cut down and eventually just started leaving out altogether. I mean, after a dozen random battles they serve no narrative function: Strahd already knows everything he's going to know about you guys, he's already proven how awesome he is, he really either needs to just kill you or ignore you. Plus, given the time it takes to run them, constant battles just mean you spend half your precious game time doing random battles. Some groups love that; ours doesn't.
I like the idea that he's always spying on them, or that he can show up if necessary to the plot at any time, but are the players really going to get that? It's really too close to DM fiat for anyone who isn't the DM to tell the difference. "Strahd has a X% chance to know where the characters are." From the player's perspective, that's: Strahd shows up when the DM says. Why pretend NOT to do that? Just make it dramatic and ignore the constant tracking. Have them catch a few spies and they'll assume the rest without so much background work on the DM's part.
Also, going off in another random direction: I already made a thread about the constant influx of NPCs into your party. That's a lot to deal with as well.
I like the idea that he's always spying on them, or that he can show up if necessary to the plot at any time, but are the players really going to get that? It's really too close to DM fiat for anyone who isn't the DM to tell the difference. "Strahd has a X% chance to know where the characters are." From the player's perspective, that's: Strahd shows up when the DM says. Why pretend NOT to do that? Just make it dramatic and ignore the constant tracking. Have them catch a few spies and they'll assume the rest without so much background work on the DM's part.
Also, going off in another random direction: I already made a thread about the constant influx of NPCs into your party. That's a lot to deal with as well.
TwoSix
Everyone's literal second-favorite poster
Hey, it happens. I mean, it's not like you helped write that book or anything.Gah! You're right. I somehow had a synaptic misfire between Vecna (god, briefly stuck in Ravenloft) and Acererak (vestige).
Bad Ari! Bad!
Mouseferatu
Hero
Change the names on the crypts. Make up a few answers where they're lacking (or just decide that the answers aren't available); there are plenty of places where the missing "seed" could be, for instance. Dramatically change the implications of the Amber Temple, or even rewrite that section. Possibly bump up Strahd's damage. Nothing (the Temple being the possible exception) too egregious.
Almost everything else, frankly. The mood and atmosphere are fantastic. The NPCs are, for the most part, genuinely interesting. Barovia has a good selection of cool stories to tell and excellent adventure locations to explore--and lots of room to increase said stories with a modicum of DM creativity. (Deciding to link the hags of the Bonegrinder to Baba Lyssaga, for instance, and adding some farther-reaching hag-related plots.) You could develop intrigue-based adventures from the rival PC factions in Vallaki.
Frankly, the book works really well as a Barovia sourcebook, not just an adventure. As I said in the first post, it's a fantastic work for the most part. That's why the problems stand out to me: because they're contrasted against so much that works.
Mouseferatu
Hero
Hey, it happens. I mean, it's not like you helped write that book or anything.
Hush.
(Besides, I didn't write the binder chapter. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.)
evilbob
Adventurer
Our group is generally very forgiving of heavy railroading at the very beginning of the adventure; starting can be tricky and once you get going things push themselves along. Honestly, just getting them to the point that they see those kids will likely be enough for many.
Also, thanks for the head's up about the third seed. I've been reading things all out of order so I just assumed it'd be revealed later.
MonsterEnvy
Legend
The PC's are the only one's who can help him escape his prison. He wants one of them to replace him as ruler so he can leave. But is too arrogant in the end to consider any of them as worthy of taking his place.
Also Strahd is not an ok guy and should not be precented as such to them. He also can't release them even if wanted to. He does however off the party eventually full vampire status. (Which is a lie he is going to turn them into spawn and not bother to go to the next step of feeding them his blood.)
Remathilis
Legend
Ok, I'm having mixed feelings on the homages/imports from other settings/stories. Specifically, the Guthias tree (which was destroyed in the Sunless Citadel) and the Mad Archmage/Mordenkainen. On the one hand, it's cool to see those elements referenced and it shows the strength of Barovia to hold those things, but on the other hand, it adds little to the plot and could've been unique, original characters for all its worth.
I'm also not entirely happy with the canon changes regarding Strahd, the Dark Powers, Madam Eva, the Morninglord, or Van Richten. I get its a reimagining of the the adventure, not the setting, but changing parts of those key elements feels like they don't care about the old setting. (Its known Tracy and Laura never cared about the setting the module spawned, and was bitter about the Soth-in-loft thing, so I wonder if the canon contradiction was intentional).
As an adventure, it looks fantastic. As a reboot of the Ravenloft mythos, I'm less impressed.
I'm also not entirely happy with the canon changes regarding Strahd, the Dark Powers, Madam Eva, the Morninglord, or Van Richten. I get its a reimagining of the the adventure, not the setting, but changing parts of those key elements feels like they don't care about the old setting. (Its known Tracy and Laura never cared about the setting the module spawned, and was bitter about the Soth-in-loft thing, so I wonder if the canon contradiction was intentional).
As an adventure, it looks fantastic. As a reboot of the Ravenloft mythos, I'm less impressed.
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