Cursed Items

[Lord Zardoz]

I think that 4th edition ought to revisit the concept of cursed items.

Now, I know that the general consensus is that dropping cursed loot on your players will generally just make your players unhappy. And by the mid levels, all it will result in is a quick Remove Curse being cast as soon as possible. In short, they do not enhance gameplay.

What I would like to see however, is a mechanism where I can give creatures items that work as cursed unless the wielder meets some precondition, and will otherwise work normally. There are a few reasons I think this is a good idea.

1) It allows me to give humanoid opponents CR appropriate gear (allowing for CR appropriate fights) without having my players accumulating enough items to equip a small army. I know magical gear wont be as important for 4th edition, but I suspect it will still be important enough that I do not want to throw a Lvl 10 NPC against a Lvl 10 PC without letting the NPC have gear comparable to the PC.

2) It makes sense from a suspension of disbelief standpoint that the BBEG would take measures to ensure that the gear he gives his followers cannot be turned against him easily.

3) It allows me to give NPCs gear that I do have to worry about my PC's having once they kill the NPC. They may be able to use it, but the curse will be a disincentive.

4) We can replace Identify as a barrier to use with something that can be used to either let the PC's use the item unhindered or remove the curse outright

Cursed items of the sort I suggest could work on the following sort of limitations.

- Limited by race
- Limited by alignment
- Limited to a certain environment (only works within 100 miles of the BBEGs lair)
- Limited by an oath of fealty to a god or person
- Owner must have done X task or ritual or action

I would implement most cursed items of this sort generally as a either flat -X penalty to some combination attacks, saves, and Ac, or just inflict a random condition (Nauseated, fatigued, dazzled, automatically knocked prone, etc). I would allow the affected person to get rid of the item and curse easily (no remove curse needed, just drop the damn thing, curse fades 1 day later). I would also set it up so that the primary benefit of the item is still active. If you acquire a +1 Sword, it will still give +1 to hit and damage. The curse however will inflict a -1 penalty to saves and Ac. I might have a cursed wand of Magic Missile that dazes the user.

What are your thoughts? Should 4th edition even have cursed items? If so, how should they be implemented? If not, why not?

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Epic Meepo]

I think 4e is definitely going to have some items with prerequisites or conditions upon their use, just as 3e had that option. I don't know if I'd call those items cursed exactly (historically, "cursed" in D&D jargon implies "completely detrimental"), but I suspect that these conditional items will be in the game somewhere.

 

[am181d]

I'd like to see cursed items follow the "awesome, but by the way" model. I like the "vicious" enhancement in the DMG, where the weapon does 2d6 to your enemy and 1d6 to you. I can't remember if there are any "bloodlust" weapons in 3e, but they'd fit the bill to. I like the idea of powerful magics with a cost... cursed weapons representing a choice rather than a punishment...

 

[TwinBahamut]

I'd like to see cursed items follow the "awesome, but by the way" model. I like the "vicious" enhancement in the DMG, where the weapon does 2d6 to your enemy and 1d6 to you. I can't remember if there are any "bloodlust" weapons in 3e, but they'd fit the bill to. I like the idea of powerful magics with a cost... cursed weapons representing a choice rather than a punishment...

I agree with this.

I think cursed weapons work well as the item which is more powerful than it otherwise should be, but that power comes with a price. Cursed weapons should be useful, but should only be used by those brave or foolish enough to take the risk.

Cursed items being a useless trinket that just inflicts harm makes them little more than annoying trap. That isn't any fun at all.

 

[KingCrab]

Now, I know that the general consensus is that dropping cursed loot on your players will generally just make your players unhappy.

Sometimes. I do remember when I was running one of the EN World Cooperative Dungeon modules, the cursed items provided a bit of comedy and didn't cripple the party too cruelly. It can work, as is, if done sparingly.

 

[Irda Ranger]

I agree with this.

I think cursed weapons work well as the item which is more powerful than it otherwise should be, but that power comes with a price. Cursed weapons should be useful, but should only be used by those brave or foolish enough to take the risk.

Cursed items being a useless trinket that just inflicts harm makes them little more than annoying trap. That isn't any fun at all.

This.

And remove "Remove Curse" from the game. Make it an explicit part of the rules that cursed items can only be removed / given up under story-appropriate circumstances. Freedom from them must be earned (even at 20th level).

 

[WyzardWhately]

Cursed items can be pretty cool, if the players take the time to visit them on the bad guys.

[We used to pin down evil monsters and slap helms of opposite alignment on them. Good times.]

 

[WayneLigon]

I think they work best as some kind of plot device and not a random 'gotcha haw haw' type of thing.

 

[TwinBahamut]

This.

And remove "Remove Curse" from the game. Make it an explicit part of the rules that cursed items can only be removed / given up under story-appropriate circumstances. Freedom from them must be earned (even at 20th level).

It seems I am disagreeing with a person who agrees with me... Strange...

I don't like cursed items being sticky. I think the impossible to remove item is a problematic thing to have, and is my least favorite part of magic items as they stand now. It seems like a cheap ploy to make the annoying trap part of a cursed item stay around longer, and it doesn't seem very fun.

I might tolerate that aspect of a curse if it is the main point of the curse, but it shouldn't exist to trap a player with a penalty or an unwanted situation.

 

[Testament]

Cursed items of the sort I suggest could work on the following sort of limitations.

- Limited by race
- Limited by alignment
- Limited to a certain environment (only works within 100 miles of the BBEGs lair)
- Limited by an oath of fealty to a god or person
- Owner must have done X task or ritual or action

I would implement most cursed items of this sort generally as a either flat -X penalty to some combination attacks, saves, and Ac, or just inflict a random condition (Nauseated, fatigued, dazzled, automatically knocked prone, etc). I would allow the affected person to get rid of the item and curse easily (no remove curse needed, just drop the damn thing, curse fades 1 day later). I would also set it up so that the primary benefit of the item is still active. If you acquire a +1 Sword, it will still give +1 to hit and damage. The curse however will inflict a -1 penalty to saves and Ac. I might have a cursed wand of Magic Missile that dazes the user.

What are your thoughts? Should 4th edition even have cursed items? If so, how should they be implemented? If not, why not?

Cursed items, with few exceptions, as they're presented in the DMG currently, are an abomination. They exist as nothing more than an infantile and annoying "neener neener" at the players. This, on the other hand, I like. Power at a price is a much cooler concept, and actually presents a choice. I especially like the oath requirement idea here. Environment, on the other hand, reminds me far too much of the utter stupidity of Drow Decay Syndrome.