Cursed Items

Cursed items can represent a challenge just like any other part of an adventure. I'd be disappointed if they were dropped from the game.

The trick is not to overuse them.

The useful-at-a-cost idea has been around since 1e artifact design; I like it, but again only as an uncommon thing.

Lanefan
 

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So, to summarise: lets have cursed items, but let them be interesting and entertaining. Sure that can mean trap kind of items, as long the effect is temporary. For long lasting effects the item should be something loke Stormbringer or The One Ring.
 

I've always liked items where they have a cool power, the user knows it has a cool power, but also knows using it has a price.

For instance, a ruby that grants three wishes, but on the third wish it frees a balor trapped inside of it.
 

Most of my ideas are based on the ways to provide opponents with reasonable gear that does not continuously feed the players loot. But I also think that curses in general ought to be given a better treatment in the DMG. A suitable cursed item could become the focal point of an adventure. Cursed weapons of the sort I suggest can become the calling card of villainous organizations.

But as things are now, unless your dealing with an Artifact, cursed items are primarily a mechanical annoyance. I would like 4th edition to do something with the concept to make it more interesting.

END COMMUNICATION
 

TwinBahamut said:
I don't like cursed items being sticky.

I don't like the stickiness either, though I support cursed items.

Say you pick up a cursed sword. Perhaps they could do something slightly less 'sticky' like make you unable to pick up any other sword until you remove the curse that this sword gave? This way you could pick up a mace or something else, but because you touched that cursed sword, you can't properly use a sword until you get yourself some help.
 

KingCrab said:
I don't like the stickiness either, though I support cursed items.

Say you pick up a cursed sword. Perhaps they could do something slightly less 'sticky' like make you unable to pick up any other sword until you remove the curse that this sword gave? This way you could pick up a mace or something else, but because you touched that cursed sword, you can't properly use a sword until you get yourself some help.
I'm not sure I like this either...

This seems more like you get an item that places a curse on the wielder, rather than an item which is itself cursed. It is an odd disctinction, I suppose, but I think it is an important one.

I think a good cursed item is the sword Tyrfing of Norse legend. It was created to be one of the greatest swords in the world, but was cursed so that it will kill someone every time it is unsheathed, and will do three evil deeds in its existence. One example of this curse in action is that it forces an argument between two brothers, ending in one brother killing the other, when they unsheath it just to look at it. No one is forced to use it and it is a very good weapon, but it is still very dangerous and brings grief and destruction into the world several times.
 

I do not like 'sticky' cursed items either. But I also think that for a curse to mean much of anything, it should have some lasting, if short term effect. The previously mentioned weapon that dos +2d6 to the enemy and 1d6 to the wielder of the weapon is not really that significant of a cursed item.

I think that a cursed item ought to bring some form of misery that persists even when your not using it, but it should not be the sort of thing that is near permanent until Remove Curse is cast. I think that a player should be given a reasonable chance to stop using on his own. If an item must be sticky, why not give the user a Will save once per day to shake the curse.

If your not going to go for even a near sticky cursed item, then why not give a penalty that persists for a few days until the player makes a saving throw? For a sword, I would think that something like a Disease that does 1d2 Int / Wis / Cha ability damage per day, and allows no save until you stop using the weapon is a good way to go. The ability damage is scary sure. And even when you get rid of the item, you still have to succeed on a high DC Fort saves to avoid the damage, and need two to shake the disease. Is it a deterrent? Hell yes. Is it going to completely deter someone from using a weapon with a +4 enhancement with +1d8 Unholy burst damage? Depends on how desperate the player is, and how difficult the save is.


The trouble is in what kind of persistent effects from a curse make sense. I think that most cursed items in general should never result in a potential character death by them self. I do think that any given curse really ought to make a player very miserable though.

- Unable to benefit from Magical healing unless the caster / item succeeds an opposed roll
- Suffer a Disease that can reduce an ability score to 4 (but no lower)
- Always fail initiative
- Always considered flanked in combat
- Always provoke attacks of opportunity from those who threaten you every round.
- Random chance to be compelled to move into danger (DM gets to position your character for best benefit of monster)
- Plagued by Nightmares and possibly unable to memorize new spells
- Random chance that opponent automatically fails / (or spell attack roll auto fails)
- Random chance that spell will require a higher level slot when cast

I think that a worthwhile cursed item should have the following traits:
+ A cursed item should make a player Miserable, not Dead.
+ Penalty must not always apply. Either the player should have a chance to overcome the curse for a short time by an opposed roll, or the penalty may be random.
+ The Item must be worthwhile to use even if the penalty is known. Using a cursed item should always be better than using no item at all, at least in the short term.
+ The penalty / cost for using the item must be mildly persistant, and ideally cumulative.
+ If the item can become 'sticky', than it must NOT do so on the first use, and never do so automatically. When Stickyness does kick in, there must be a chance to avoid it, and after it happens, there must be a chance to break it.

+ The only exceptions to the above should be if the item serves a plot purpose.

Random thought: A perfectly cursed item would be a Holy Avenger sword that in the hands of a palidin, has the following additional traits:
- Grant a +4 to Sense motive Checks vs Bluff checks used to deceive.
- Make the paladin unable to knowingly speak an untruth.
- Compell the Paladin to attack anyone who lies to him.

The item is certainly useful, but very dangerous to own outside of combat situations.

END COMMUNICATION
 

TwinBahamut said:
It seems I am disagreeing with a person who agrees with me... Strange...

I don't like cursed items being sticky. I think the impossible to remove item is a problematic thing to have, and is my least favorite part of magic items as they stand now. It seems like a cheap ploy to make the annoying trap part of a cursed item stay around longer, and it doesn't seem very fun.

I might tolerate that aspect of a curse if it is the main point of the curse, but it shouldn't exist to trap a player with a penalty or an unwanted situation.
I don't think we disagree. I probably didn't explain myself well enough. For instance, I agree that Tyrfang is a cool cursed weapon.

What I don't want is someone to draw Tyrfang and say "Quick, someone cast Remove Curse before I have to kill anyone!" Cursed items should be rare, interesting, and plot/story driven. I don't like the "Gotcha!" cursed items like the belt of gender switching, but I do like Stormbringer.

Basically, I want cursed items in the game, but I want them to be rare and a bit like a D&D Artifact: they should exist a bit outside the rules, and simple Wizard or Cleric per/day spells should not be able to rid you of them.
 

Irda Ranger said:
I don't think we disagree. I probably didn't explain myself well enough. For instance, I agree that Tyrfang is a cool cursed weapon.

What I don't want is someone to draw Tyrfang and say "Quick, someone cast Remove Curse before I have to kill anyone!" Cursed items should be rare, interesting, and plot/story driven. I don't like the "Gotcha!" cursed items like the belt of gender switching, but I do like Stormbringer.

Basically, I want cursed items in the game, but I want them to be rare and a bit like a D&D Artifact: they should exist a bit outside the rules, and simple Wizard or Cleric per/day spells should not be able to rid you of them.
Oh, in that case, I guess we don't disagree then. Nevermind. :)

I agree that you should not be able to just dodge the penalty of a cursed item just by having your friend cast a quick spell. Maybe some magic can weaken a curse, or heal the damage it causes, but it should not be ignorable.

Err, what is Stormbringer?
 

TwinBahamut said:
Err, what is Stormbringer?

Arrghh! Blasphemer! Philistine!

OK, I'll try and be helpful now... :)

Stormbringer is Elric's sword, of the Elric of Melnibone books by Michael Moorcock - one of the listed influences of early D&D. As a weapon, it consumed (and craved for) the souls of those it killed, and gave part of that power to Elric, in strength, etc. It was also the original berserking sword; Elric on multiple occassions killed friends, lovers, and allies while under the effects of its battle-lust. He couldn't just get rid of the sword though, as it was too powerful and at times, necessary to his goals.

Technically, it wasn't cursed, as Elric could rid himself of it, but he was practically helpless without it, as he was extraordinarily physically decrepit and illness-ridden without its strength. I won't give away any further spoilers for the books...
 

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