D&D “Essentials” as a product line = making it less daunting to get into the game?

[Scribble]

What I want to ask people here is, whether in your estimate WotC has

- succeeded to cut down on the product proliferation and
- rectified the sometimes unclear labeling of products (e.g. Adventurers Vault 2 as a “core” rules book)

I think part of it that people miss though is the idea that they're not just designed to be "core" for players, but for stores as well.

If they only want to carry a small amount of D&D stuff, these are the things they should carry.

That way, even if they're the only D&D products the store carries, a new player can walk into the store, and the store will be "guaranteed" to have what the player needs to start playing D&D.

New player can go to the store, buy what's listed on the back of the book, go home and have everything needed to start playing D&D.

Who knows if it will be an effective strategy though... I get the feeling it will be, for the simple fact that it makes it easier for stores to show new players or people buying for new plays exactly what they need... but I don't know.

Interestingly enough, I picked up Gamma World, and I feel that it is what the Red Box should have been. The game just seems so elegant in explaining the 4E rules, character creation is simple and yet presents a fast array of concepts, everything you need to play is consolidated in one place... honestly, I think the Essentials line-up could have been patterned after some of the approaches taken by Gamma World, and it would have been an amazing success.

Maybe... But the GW boxed set is designed to be a full game on it's own, not just the starter set for GW.

Really had they put say all the rules for level 1-3 in the red-box, wouldn't it just be repetitive once someone bought into the full Essentials line?

Red-Box does what it does. Let's an inexperienced player learn and Try D&D without needing anything else. (Basically it amounts to an intro adventure that you don't need to own the rest of the game to use.)

Maybe they just should have called the red-box a trial or demo set or something?

It amounts to say Microsoft selling a video game that you can play without owning an Xbox, and then saying- hey did you like that? You can play games just like this and more on an actual Xbox! (You can even use the controller with the xbox!)

 

[Mistwell]

I’m particularly interested in the experience of people working at FLGS's who could observe the effect of the products on people walking into the store who’ve never heard of D&D before...

Why?

Essentials is selling primarily through places like Target, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble. It doesn't seem particularly aimed at local game stores (who are populated by people who HAVE heard of D&D before, for the most part).

Why would you ask the place most likely to be filled with people who've heard of D&D before, what effect they are observing on people who have never heard of D&D before?

 

[Dragonhelm]

This is just my opinion, but I think they've made it more confusing than ever.

In the past, you had roughly a 3-book buy-in (PHB, DMG, and MM). That has increased, of course, with sequels to those books, causing some confusion.

However, Essentials is something like 10 products. To a new player, that is daunting. While the Red Box is the intro to the game, and a good intro to building your first character, it doesn't have basic rules in it.

On top of that, a newb wouldn't know that some books are core. Heroes of the Fallen Lands and Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdom do not evoke the sense of a core rulebook, player's handbook, or any sort of guide. To me, that sounds more like a module or accessory.

Other game systems follow more of a route of traditional AD&D with three books. You could probably tackle Pathfinder with two books. True20 with one.

Truthfully, if I was going to go with a basic D&D style game for a beginner, I would point them to Castles & Crusades. The rules are simple, the flavor text is great, it's a low price point, and you only need two books to play.

While I applaud WotC for trying to reach out to new players, I really don't see how Essentials is less daunting with so many products, some of which are not labeled in such a way as to be clear on their intent.

 

[Stormonu]

I see this as nothing more than repackaging; somewhat along the lines of the reissue of the loose-leaf Monster Compendiums in 2E under the hardcover Monstrous Compendium.

Briefly flipping through the initial books and the red box the Essentials did not strike me as "friendlier" to new players but instead simply an attempt to rehash what exists and draw purchases out over more bite-size chunks (which in the end, costs more than the initial 3 core).

 

[Hussar]

Scribble and Mistwell make a good point.

Is it really as confusing as some make it out to be when the different products are being sold in different places?

I mean, you're not going to get the Core 3 (PHB etc) in Target. You're going to get the Starter Box. That's one product.

By the time someone's gone through that one product - several weeks of play time - they probably have a reasonably decent idea of what they want/need next.

In other words, people aren't likely to walk in off the street and see fifteen different products and get confused. This is directed at non-gamers. Mom and/or Dad and/or Grandparent of choice picks this up at B&N or Target for a Christmas present. A month or two later, after seeing little Suzie play the crap out of the game, it's birthday time and she asks for a couple of new books by name. Off to Amazon people go.

The idea that you're going to plunk down a hundred bucks on a game no one has ever played before is probably not going to happen.

 

[Beginning of the End]

Really had they put say all the rules for level 1-3 in the red-box, wouldn't it just be repetitive once someone bought into the full Essentials line?

Sure. The entire methodology of the product line is flawed.

You want to make D&D accessible through a clearly labeled product that eliminates customer confusion?

(1) Produce a box that says "DUNGEONS & DRAGONS" on the front cover. There are no provisos or subtitles. It's just: "DUNGEONS & DRAGONS". This is the game.

Inside that box you find all the rules for the Heroic Tier of play using the four core classes. These rules, however, would be stripped of all the "fiddly bits". IOW, the rules would be comprehensively broad, but not get too bogged down in the gritty detail that makes a ruleset complex.

(2) Release two more boxed expansions -- "PARAGON EXPANSION" and "EPIC EXPANSION" -- extending this same clean, comprehensive approach to the four core classes through the next two tiers.

(3) Release the PHB/DMG/MM hardbacks under the ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS trademark: These will have all the fiddly bits. The customization options for character creation. The esoteric combat maneuvers. The environmental modifiers. (The key here, however, is that these rules are completely compatible -- they're just more detailed.)

(4) And then you can release as many supplements as you like -- making them compatible with both D&D and AD&D and doing all the things supplements typically do. But stay away from boxed sets.

The three boxed sets serve as your mass market products. The Paragon and Epic boxed sets allow players to expand the power level of the game. The Advanced books allow players to expand the detail, flexibility, and (therefore) complexity of the ruleset. And the supplements do all the things supplements typically do.

Red-Box does what it does.

Unfortunately, what it does is not what the original red box did. Instead it does what every failed Basic Set / Basic Game / First Quest set has done since 1991: Asked the customer to pay for the demo.

 

[Windjammer]

I’m particularly interested in the experience of people working at FLGS's who could observe the effect of the products on people walking into the store who’ve never heard of D&D before...

Why?

Essentials is selling primarily through places like Target, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble. It doesn't seem particularly aimed at local game stores (who are populated by people who HAVE heard of D&D before, for the most part).

Why would you ask the place most likely to be filled with people who've heard of D&D before, what effect they are observing on people who have never heard of D&D before?

Thanks, you raise a good point, and that is, that Essentials is being placed at retail places like Target so that D&D can now penetrate markets it had hitherto a harder time to access.

At the same time, when I think of brick and mortar stores, I don't (always) picture the hardcore RPG-only store. In my experience, a lot of these stores have their focus on comics and other games (boardgames, CCG). So if a new customer gets to one of these stores with the intention to buy something he already knows - like the latest DC or Marvel issues - and then sees the D&D products, he'll know what to pick first and (upon revisiting the store later) how to progress from there.

My personal recall may be distorted, but I do seem to recall from the GenCon podcasts Bill Slavicsek saying that the Essentials line was designed to make it easier for "the new guy walking into the store". Scribble made a great point, though:

I think part of it that people miss though is the idea that they're not just designed to be "core" for players, but for stores as well.

If they only want to carry a small amount of D&D stuff, these are the things they should carry.

I think you're right on that one. Making it easier for stores to decide which D&D products to carry. Whence the idea of Essentials as "evergreens", as things you should always carry in stock. Whence the inclusion of such apparently non-"core"-products like tiles and counters and dice among these "evergreens".

 

[Scribble]

Sure. The entire methodology of the product line is flawed.

So you're saying book format has been flawed for the past 30 years?

What are you basing this on?

I see you're a proponent of the multi-boxed set format, and I don't have any evidence saying it wouldn't work- so I'm not going to claim it wouldn't.

But what are you basing your claims that "CLEARLY" this strategy is a poor one on?

 

[DEFCON 1]

What I want to ask people here is, whether in your estimate WotC has

- succeeded to cut down on the product proliferation and
- rectified the sometimes unclear labeling of products (e.g. Adventurers Vault 2 as a “core” rules book)

The answer to both of your questions are obviously 'NO'. But they are also two questions that don't actually prove anything and are kind of useless to ask.

Your first question was this: "Has WotC succeeded to cut down on the product proliferation?" In layman's terms... has the release of new product resulted in less product on the shelves? Of course the answer is 'no'. It's not possible to release something new and have less than what you started with.

Your second question was this: "Has WotC rectified the sometimes unclear labeling of products (e.g. Adventurers Vault 2 as a “core” rules book)?" In layman's terms... are things fixed so there are less things labeled "core" now on the shelves, and thus less likely to confuse people? And again... provided WotC didn't walk into every single store and put white-out stickers over each use of the word "core" on every hardcover book still on the shelves... of course the answer is 'no'. It's not feasible. You can't retroactively remove the word "core" from those other books to help "clear things up". The Essential products are right there next to the "core" Player's Handbook 1, 2, & 3.

What it seems like you are trying to ask comes down to one central thing. "Has WotC made getting into the game of Dungeons And Dragons idiot-proof"?

But I have to ask... why is it we seem so beholden to the idea that the only way people will ever get involved in this game is if it's so mind-numbingly simple that even the most stupid of us can pick it up? Can't we put a little bit of onus back on the potential player to actually use his brain and figure out that those that all look the same and have "Essentials" on their soft cover might be one thing, and those hardcover books labeled "core" might be something different? Is that really too much to ask?

 

[Campbell]

They've apparently managed to confuse a number of folks into thinking that The Rules Compendium is required to play or run the game. Once the Monster Vault comes out all you're supposed to need are that, the DM's Kit, and the Heroes books in use.