D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

[Oofta]

Nah the DMG told you how to adjudicate on the fly.

The complexity came from the later options bloat.



The same WOTC that got mad that 3PP did that exact thing and they attempted to control the whole market by funneling all 3PP through them?

That WOTC?

Also the WotC that listened to feedback, changed directions and now supports 3PP in DDB.

You can't have third parties through the parts that you don't want to do then be upset that you don't get a cut out of it.

I don't even know what you're trying to say. There's plenty of 3PP, it's not going anywhere and in many ways WotC is actively supporting it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Amassing a huge stockpile of diverse and varied product while going bankrupt and suing or threatening to sue everyone who infringed on what they considered their IP is not exactly a selling point.

Being made by the same company that produces the core rules does not somehow make a product "better".

I agree, but I'm unconcerned about the ultimate staying power of TSR as a company, just about what they produced in the decades they did operate. That's the relevant factor to me. And a lot of it was pretty great IMO.

 

[Oofta]

I agree, but I'm unconcerned about the ultimate staying power of TSR as a company, just about what they produced in the decades they did operate. That's the relevant factor to me. And a lot of it was pretty great IMO.

But you seem to be saying it was somehow better ... which obviously it wasn't because if WotC hadn't stepped in we wouldn't have had any new D&D products in nearly 30 years. From a business standpoint letting 3PP works better. From a consumer standpoint it works better because there's even more options and the company behind the game is still in business.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But you seem to be saying it was somehow better ... which obviously it wasn't because if WotC hadn't stepped in we wouldn't have had any new D&D products in nearly 30 years. From a business standpoint letting 3PP works better. From a consumer standpoint it works better because there's even more options and the company behind the game is still in business.

I'm not arguing from a business standpoint. I'm arguing from a consumer standpoint. Like I said, decades of awesome product that would not exist if TSR had been a better run company. The amazing 3pp galaxy for the 5e family of games, and the outstanding variety of the OSR, are built on the foundation of TSR-era content and ultimately on what happened to the company that made all of it. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.

 

[Maxperson]

I knew everything, too! Shame I forgot it.

I was a bit different when I was young. I didn't think or act like I knew everything. For me it was that I just didn't care what the older folks told me, because I wanted to do things for myself, even if I got it wrong a time or three before success. As I got older and maybe wiser, I just got tired of missing out on things because I would get it wrong and a deadline would pass to get it right, so I started listening more to those older than myself.

Now that I'm the older one and really do know everything, I wish you guys would just realize that!

 

[Neonchameleon]

Not in any game I played in or DMed.

YMMV

In mine 4e was the only edition of the game that encouraged truly custom monsters thanks to the ease of construction and the powers structure being an open mark up language for custom abilities. (The worst was 3.x with feats, monster hit dice, and too much calculation).

In mine 4e was the only edition of the game to encourage actually interesting environments rather than "green screen combat" as the prevalence of forced movement meant that pit traps, campfires, and even open sewers meant that someone would always try to throw someone else in them. And again the powers structure made adding things easy.

What wasn't was twofold. New classes as adding to the character builder was a pain, and mediocre subsystems as unless they were good they'd stick out like a sore thumb.

And? It's a pretty minimal change and, as I said, every game can use improvement. I haven't played enough to know if weapon masteries are a big issue, so far I'd say no.

I'm hoping that the Push mastery will bring back a lot.

 

[Oofta]

I'm not arguing from a business standpoint. I'm arguing from a consumer standpoint. Like I said, decades of awesome product that would not exist if TSR had been a better run company. The amazing 3pp galaxy for the 5e family of games, and the outstanding variety of the OSR, are built on the foundation of TSR-era content and ultimately on what happened to the company that made all of it. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.

I'm also arguing from a consumer standpoint. If the company that produces a product goes bankrupt, then I have no new product. We still have all the lore TSR created if you want and it sounds like we agree that 3PP stuff is overall good. TSR constantly tried to shut down 3PP as much as possible.

So I guess I don't even know what you're arguing.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Yup. I especially got very tired of PCs constantly pushing enemies off of cliffs and into damaging zones. It discouraged me from designing exciting fight locations, since the response was always spamming forced movement.

Meanwhile it encouraged me because the locations actually mattered and we're no longer the equivalent of filming in a studio against a green screen with really pretty locations being added in post-production but the characters never interacting with them.

 

[Oofta]

YMMV

In mine 4e was the only edition of the game that encouraged truly custom monsters thanks to the ease of construction and the powers structure being an open mark up language for custom abilities. (The worst was 3.x with feats, monster hit dice, and too much calculation).

In mine 4e was the only edition of the game to encourage actually interesting environments rather than "green screen combat" as the prevalence of forced movement meant that pit traps, campfires, and even open sewers meant that someone would always try to throw someone else in them. And again the powers structure made adding things easy.

What wasn't was twofold. New classes as adding to the character builder was a pain, and mediocre subsystems as unless they were good they'd stick out like a sore thumb.

I'm hoping that the Push mastery will bring back a lot.

I make custom monsters all the time. If I'm too lazy, I have hundreds of monsters to choose from.

But we're getting to the point where it's the same old edition wars. I'm done.

 

[Imaro]

What genre is that? Superhero fantasy?

Huh??