D&D (2024) D&D 2024 Rules Oddities (Kibbles’ Collected Complaints)

[Daztur]

how I would do it: stuff like Guidance goes the way of the Dodo, it should never have existed. Casters get fewer slots, spells will be culled or nerfed as needed, rituals become slots again, cantrips can stay.

Martials have no spells, neither do species or backgrounds. They can get features that are spell-like, but none of this is casting. If my Rogue can perform the equivalent of a Pass without Trace PB times a day (or some other similar skills that fit the profile) that is fine, but it is not a spell.

Rangers, Fighters, Barbarians, Rogues are all martials. Bards die a horrible death, that class should never have existed. The rest stay in their lanes but the casting side is nerfed. Clerics, Druids and Paladins are all divine half-casters with some special features, the same goes for the arcane side, Wizard, Warlock and Sorcerer are all half-casters with different flavor features

WRT bards, the LaserLlama half caster bard seems fine, being full casters fills up so much of the 5.*ed bard's power budget that they just end up as wizards with a lute most of the time.

 

[Kobold Stew]

if I remember correctly this is on WotC, it made the threshold and WotC still decided against it for compatibility reasons

Do you have a source for this?

 

[mellored]

if I remember correctly this is on WotC, it made the threshold and WotC still decided against it for compatibility reasons

There was plenty of push back on moving subclasses to level 3 as is.

Making more changes would mean messing up even more old subclasses.

 

[mamba]

Do you have a source for this?

Crawford mentioned it in one of the videos back in the days, that it (I believe it was this one..) reached the threshold but they decided against it because there were some concerns about impacts on compatibility.

You might find something in a thread here about that too, probably better than going through the playtest videos, otoh the playtest package might narrow that video down too

 

[mamba]

There was plenty of push back on moving subclasses to level 3 as is.

Making more changes would mean messing up even more old subclasses.

don’t care, the point was they went against it despite the proposal meeting their own threshold. That was the point I was making.

Apart from that I really would have preferred that too, compatibility be damned, it is not as much of a concern to me as it turned out to be for WotC. So now I sit out 2024 because they scrapped all the better ideas, sacrificed on the altar of compatibility…

 

[mamba]

Do you have a source for this?

A little digging later I found an interview

“Interestingly, many of the bigger changes reached the threshold that Wizards considers to be a success – a 70% success rate. "The thing is, the scores are not the full story," Crawford said. "We also look at what are people saying in the written feedback and what they are saying in online discussion forums. And while people were often excited by a number of these experiments, there was also a lot of concern about what would this do to the existing game."

Dungeons & Dragons' Designer Explains How Playtests Have Moved From Experimental to Focused

Dungeons & Dragons designer Jeremy Crawford explains the Unearthed Arcana process for the upcoming [...]

comicbook.com

I thought I also had a reference specifically for the subclass progression, but for now this will have to do

 

[Kobold Stew]

A little digging later I found an interview

I thought I also had a reference specifically for the subclass progression, but for now this will have to do

Thanks, I appreciate you looking. I accept that they fudged their numbers sometimes. I am not sure there's evidence that this was one of those. I think we agree, though, about the public concern for backwards compatibility leading to the rejection of this idea.

 

[mamba]

I think we agree, though, about the public concern for backwards compatibility leading to the rejection of this idea.

yes, not that I care much about that, I would have preferred a unified progression across classes. Not getting that is one of the reasons why I see no point in 2024, most of the good ideas did not make it in, instead we got some numbers shuffled around

 

[Kobold Stew]

yes, not that I care much about that, I would have preferred a unified progression across classes. Not getting that is one of the reasons why I see no point in 2024, most of the good ideas did not make it in, instead we got some numbers shuffled around

I'm in for 2024, but I do understand. Have you ever looked at Shadow of the Demon Lord (a Kickstarter game form 2015?) It does great things in terms of showing the benefits of having standard levels. The resulting system allows great combos; cool subclass systems, and makes races/species a lot more meaningful. there was a lot that could have been learned from that.

 

[mamba]

I'm in for 2024, but I do understand. Have you ever looked at Shadow of the Demon Lord (a Kickstarter game form 2015?) It does great things in terms of showing the benefits of having standard levels. The resulting system allows great combos; cool subclass systems, and makes races/species a lot more meaningful. there was a lot that could have been learned from that.

yes, backed the Weird Wizard but have not yet taken a close look, chances are I will move to that though, 2024 just completely missed the boat for me