D&D 3E/3.5 [D&D 3.5e] 1st Level Multiclass Characters?

[Salthorae]

question

Actually, I'd argue that a 1st-level barbarian isn't better than other 1st-level characters. The thing that makes the apprentice-level characters 'better' at 1st level (imho) is the combining of abilities a straight 1st-level pc can't have. For instance, a barb/wiz apprentice-level pc may not be able to rage, but if his main focus is going to be wizard and she starts off with 12 hp... well, that's an unfair advantage (imo).

How are you going to be a Bar/Wiz? Wizards power relies on reading, barbarians are illiterate. To be even an apprentice wizard you have to be able to read and study "magical theory", otherwise you're a sorcerer. As barbarians can't read they shouldn't be able to even think about wizardry until they can...

i guess that would just be a house rule, but...any other concept in the apprentice level works though i think (imho)

 

[Spatula]

Actually, I'd argue that a 1st-level barbarian isn't better than other 1st-level characters. The thing that makes the apprentice-level characters 'better' at 1st level (imho) is the combining of abilities a straight 1st-level pc can't have. For instance, a barb/wiz apprentice-level pc may not be able to rage, but if his main focus is going to be wizard and she starts off with 12 hp... well, that's an unfair advantage (imo).

And how is that different from a barb 1 that takes wizard as his next level?

I don't see how it's unbalancing to have a barbarian that trades in his primary ability (rage) to cast a single first level spell. Furthermore the character loses out on having a +1 BAB at 1st level, which impacts your combat feat choices. In fact, a combat-oriented apprentice-level character (especially a human fighter/X) is weaker than a non-apprentice version because of the BAB loss.

The apprentice-level rules removed the lack of versimilitude that came when a character instantly learns to be a full-fledged wizard (or cleric, or druid, or...) upon gaining a level. And having seen them in play, they're not unbalanced. Nor have I seen any examples of how the rules could be abused to create an unbalanced character.

 

[Spatula]

How are you going to be a Bar/Wiz? Wizards power relies on reading, barbarians are illiterate. To be even an apprentice wizard you have to be able to read and study "magical theory", otherwise you're a sorcerer. As barbarians can't read they shouldn't be able to even think about wizardry until they can...

A barbarian that picks up a level in any other class becomes literate.

 

[Salthorae]

A barbarian that picks up a level in any other class becomes literate.

that i understand (though i don't agree with insta-literacy and don't allow it my games), but according to the rules you are correct. My inital point is that it doesn't make sense for an apprentice level bar/wiz. it is the one combination i would disallow because it makes no sense. You cannot develop simultaneously in an illiterate culture and as a literate wizard, again mho.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Imagine you want to play a future arcane trickster. Rogue/Wizard.

You start rogue, gain a few XP, want to multi in wizard; and there the DM says "no way, where did you learn magic?"

This is one reason why I never, ever start at first level, and also why I go into details with my players about how they plan on developing. It's also not difficult to build your first-level Rogue in such a way that it's obvious he has some knowledge of magic. Use Magic Device and cross-class Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana should be a strong indication you're going to go into Wizard and that your character has already studied it extensively.

And if a DM pulled this stunt on me in-game, I'd take it as a pretty good sign it's a game I'd have no intention of staying involved in. If we were going to be playing like that, we might as well be playing Second Edition.

 

[Quaestor]

I recall reading some gossip somewhere that the apprentice-level system was left out of the 3.5 DMG more on the basis of space concerns than from any incompatibilities/lack of balance in the 3.5 system. I fully expect to see it printed in Arcana Unearthed.

My personal opinion is that they are quite balanced. The fact that a character that takes Barb 1, then Sorc 1 has oodles more hp than one that takes them in the opposite order is just one of those unfortunate things about the system. (Same goes for Rogue/anything.) I find only one significant advantage that a 1st level character with apprentice levels gains over a character that takes one class and then the other, and that is having all of your weapon/armor proficiencies from level one. However, this benefit is minor and also reduces in-game discontinuities (not to mention having at least minor magical abilities from 1st level.) I'm all for it.

Quaestor the Wanderer

 

[Darklone]

Same what I heard: space reasons.

Apprentice barbarians couldn't rage? I think they could. Seen too many bbn0.5/sor0.5 who raged with shield spell and sometimes True Strike.

The rules were a bit unbalanced... the main backdraw came later... look around for threads on multiclassed spellcasters

 

[morbiczer]

1. "0.5-level" barbarians could (can) rage and they get fast movement. Their BAB is +0. I just checked it.

2. I can't imagine how a "0.5/0.5" level character could be overpowered but even if it would be, then only for the first level. How long do you play at first level? 3 sessions? 4 sessions? Normally not more, more likely even less. OTOH it's a good mechanic to explain how multiclass characters are created. If you want to play a Ftr/Wiz for example and you start from first level, it can be somewhat difficult to explain how your fighter became a wizard during adventuring (or a wizard a fighter.)

So I think this is a good mechanic and if we switch to 3.5, I will keep it in use.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I always avoid this issue by starting off all my players at 2nd or 3rd level. That way I don't have to spend a few sessions on the "Kobold and Goblin den" adventures and folks that want to use +ECL races or multiclass can just start as them.

Just my .02

DS