D&D 4.0e officiallly announced for May, 2008

Fowai Uss

First Post
I must say that I am disappointed in WotC. I mean, I was shocked to learn that they had 5...5 different Monster Manuals out. I was like, How many monsters do you need?! Is it not enough to stick with the basics? Apparently not. I was first introduced to D&D via my uncles (D&D and I were first introduced when I was like 6 or 7...what game could possibly need so many dice? :D ). They've been playing 1e for as long as I can remember. Recently, over the past few years or so, one of my uncles has decided to move onto 2e and is working on incorporating weapon speed into battle factors.

For a few years now, I have been attempting to learn 3e...then when 3.5e came out, I got around to purchasing the core books at a later date. I then followed up with buying Book of Exalted Deeds and Book of Vile Darkness, and that has been my extent of purchasing 3e/3.5e books. I must admit, I still have not taken the time to learn the rules for 3e, mainly because I first started playing 1e D&D, and now I'm working on completing my understanding of the rules through the transition to 2e in my uncle's game. But, as my first DM-ing experience might suggest, as well as what it says in the first chapter or so of the 3.5e Player's Handbook, the rules aren't written in stone (paraphrasing here). I don't have to use all the rules. I can use what I want, discard what I don't. Or at least, that is what I do. But, I digress.

Back to the topic of this thread. The driving for behind WotC announcing the release of 4e can be nothing else than greed, in my opinion. I mean, the same thing has happened with most TCG (Trading Card Games...for those of you who may not know the lingo ;) ). Games such as Pokemon, Magic: The Gathering, and Yugioh have incomprehensibly expanded beyond the original content. I mean, expansions released at the proper time with quality thought behind them, are good and fine. But, releasing another expansion before the previous has really had time to set in is fool-hearty, in my opinion.

PC gamers and non-PC gamers alike know that the Sims is a prime example of expanding beyond reason. I mean, what else besides greed could possibly bring about the inclusion of pets that, to my knowledge, do nothing to add to the game content? But, I assume you must have some idea of what I'm talking about. If not, simply visit your local Wal-mart, or any other place of business where the selling of PC games takes place. You will see what I mean the moment you visit the Electronics department and view the PC games. The Sims games galore. But, once again, I digress.

All in all, I hate to admit that the customer, in most cases, is no longer a factor when it comes to the production of gaming products. More often than not, greed becomes the all consuming driving force behind it, in one form or another.

"Hmm, well the original game sells like hot cakes, so let's now take the original content, throw it out the window, and throw in this mass of incoherent gibberish I have lying over here. And if questioned about our motives, let's just blather on about 'adding to the game as a whole'. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to watch Scrooge McDuck's Tips to Swimming in your Vault Full of Money."

-Nameless Corporate Executive
 
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Don't forget the digital content they're offering, which seems to be turning the dnd game more into an MMORPG then an exploration of the imagination (the words "monthly fee" keep popping up all over this digital dnd content thing, but that might be only for certain aspects).

Tharivious said:
Eberron players will also have a grand future to look forward to. Not even three years into its run, and that material will likely be repackaged under 4E rules before new content is released

And here I was arguing not but a month or so ago that ISRP was clearly in need of an Eberron room because (in part) of the amount of support wizards was putting into the new product... and here they go slapping me in the face by probably not releasing a 4e product for Eberron till at least 2009. With only one more product release due in October this means theres going to be a very dry 2008 with practically no Eberron releases besides novels. (That said, I still think there is a need for the setting here in ISRP and am not done trying to get a room up yet for it, but thats a subject for another thread).

That said, wizards does appear to still be backing the setting strong, even with the release of 4e, so I can only hope that it will come back bigger and better.

When 3.5 was released I promised I'd never play the system (it was only until Eberron was released that I went back to playing dnd again because I just fell in love with the setting). I don't think 3.5 has had a good enough run yet (3.0 certainly hadn't), and I once again get the feeling wizards has lost touch with their customer base by releasing 4e. At this rate, I give them 3 years till the announcement of 4.5.

I'm going to stick with 3.5 till they re-release Eberron, but I'm not going to completely count 4e out till I've seen it, some of the concepts they've been pitching are intriguing, some are not. My only concern will be weather or not its been tested enough to get all the 'bugs out of the system' so to speak, and hopefully not warrant any new rule systems for a very long time. 4e has been announced, and they're not going to pull the idea. Instead of complaining (which they have every right to do, and I agree wholeheartedly with their cries of foul vulture-money-grabbing accusations), I hope the dnd community instead pulls together to make sure WotC get it right this time so we don't have some cheap .5 edit released mere months later.
 

Tharivious

First Post
The digital initiative will, in my opinion, either flop or make WotC enough money to fun the development of 4.5. Not only will the D&D Insider cost a monthly fee (which gives access to what were once physical magazines and now no longer under the production of a competent company) that is likely going to be more expensive than the cover prices of Dragon and Dungeon combined (current forecasts seem to peg it at $12-15 USD per month), but 4E books will come with a key code that will, for an additional fee ("the price of a coffee" - either diner drip or Starbucks' premium, I'm guessing the latter), allow you to use those rules in the D&DI character generator and provide you with a key-coded PDF.

Nothing like gouging you to let you fully use something you've already purchased, eh? :confused:

Tyrian_Spellstealer said:
At this rate, I give them 3 years till the announcement of 4.5.
Well, if this is any indication:
As of eight months ago, the official word was: "We are not working on 4E."

As of now, the official word is: "We've been working on 4E for the last two and a half years." and "We are not working on 4.5 E."

I give them ten months to two years between the 4E release and when 4.5 is on the shelves, to be perfectly honest. Why? Because people will still buy it, out of blind belief in the company and a lack of thought.

With a TCG like Magic, it's one thing - cards rotate in and out of tournament format, so the base set can be updated every few years to bring out-bound cards back into Standard. The cards don't change, so the previous edition of cards still work just fine alongside the new. Not so much when they're changing an RPG that is not used in tournament format (RPGA aside, since the RPGA campaigns will either end (as it's been stated that converting from 3.5 will be "too much work to be worth it" and there will apparently be no conversion guides outside of the next few releases) or be continued in 3.5 and no longer be sanctioned by WotC.) and making the old rules incompatible with the new material.

This 4E change, notably, also affects the D&D Miniatures game and its tournament circuit. They'll only be updating the cards for the most recent expansion sets, meaning that older figures that were still tournament legal will not be given stat cards that function with the new rules. I'm smelling a rerelease of old miniatures before too long, because once again - people will buy them out of blind corporate loyalty.
 

Magi_Siani

First Post
Can't say I care much for the latest news. For myself I don't plan to delve into 4e of any sort. 3.5 works just fine and I am not interested in shelling out more for another version...when I have all of the various versions to date already. Personal thing.

Some folk will be pleased by the FR news; FR is to be the new default setting for the game and a new Living FR will replace Living Greyhawk. I still think that FR has the best names for things of any setting, and the best maps. Ed Greenwood is excellent in this regard, and Castlemourn continues this aspect of things; I like this setting. Greyhawk as a setting will now be entirely static, moreso than it already was. It is something I'll need to consider for a while.

Change is the only real constant, sometimes it is good, sometimes bad, usually mixed.

Siani
 

Imreis

First Post
Personally, im still using 3.0 because it worked just freaking fine! I didnt like 3.5, to me it felt to incomplete as is and they took over powered classes and made it worse, then took classes they shafted in 3.0 and gave them what most DM's homebrewed to the classes anyways. Honestly, when Hasbro took over they slaughtered DnD forever. I would have loved to see more for Dragonlance setting but noooo they released us like four books in the US and in Europe they got like three other books we never saw. Hell I ordered the monster manual for Dragonlance over a year ago and it NEVER came in anyways.

Im sticking to my 3.0 and thats that. Im not looking forward to the only gaming shop around my area converting over to 4.0 *sighs*. Well by the looks of the thread here so far no one is looking forward to 4.0 coming out so im saying now i refuse to buy anything 4.0 related and im sticking to the few 3.0 books they did. Its not like they didnt screw us over anyways by making some books 3.0 and some 3.5...

Take for example the Book of Vile Darkness which was 3.0...then its companion Book of Exhaled Deeds which is 3.5. Yeah, it doesnt say it on the book but read the skills in it. Its got Survial instead of Wilderness Survival...*gurmbles* or the fact some books in FR were released for 3.0 and then more in 3.5 which by the way never made it to 3.0. Yeah im not happy with the current run of things because its just more work for us as players or for us as DM's to have to toy with rules just to make the broken system functional.

Well lets end that rant before it gets nasty, in short im not touching 4.0 or any other versions there after with a ten foot pole and someone else poking it.
 

Kalreil

First Post
Hmm, the Realms are going to be default?That explains why they are getting so messesd up in novels and such. Can't have so many prominant people running around the place.
 


Tharivious

First Post
Magi_Siani said:
Some folk will be pleased by the FR news; FR is to be the new default setting for the game and a new Living FR will replace Living Greyhawk.
I hadn't seen that announced. Interesting choice for the RPGA, not sure what I think on making it the default setting by core, though. :uhoh:

I had heard that there would be fewer "Greyhawkisms" in the core, but that entities such as Vecna and the planar rulers would remain present. I had also heard that the new default setting would be less of a setting and more of a "points of light in the dark" sort of thing, designed to keep civilizations closed off from each other with safe paths between and "the adventurers being the ones that go off of those paths". I've also seen it announced that the Forgotten Realms CS book will be one of the first releases after the core books are released.

If it's going to be the core... then I'm less optimistic than ever about the whole affair.
 

Magi_Siani

First Post
According to the information I have vis a vis Greyhawk, the setting is essentially in stasis. There will be no new material for it, it will not appear in books or ezines.

Living FR replaces LG in part because it will be the 4e default setting and is the most popular of the D&D settings. WotC apparently isn't interested in trying to run more than one regionalized Living campaign and to cut down on headaches and numbers of things to produce for, it all goes FR. Those who were major Raven's Bluff fans at least have a shot at returning to Toril, if not Raven's Bluff itself.

Kalamar in Living format goes away too.

We won't know exactly how it all plays out until it happens of course, but the focus on FR as THE setting for just about everything for 4e appears to be what they are going to do. As I say, I'm not changing to 4e; not worth it to me and I have all of the other editions to use for fantasy play and the settings Blackmoor, Castlemourn, Thieve's World, and a few others. And of course, I have all the Greyhawk material as well.

Me, I'm playing Traveller again, finally. :) SciFi is my preferred medium. ;)

Oh yes, considering Eberron; it isn't a nixed idea guys. We don't have a problem having such a room as long as the stipulations set forth are met, regardless of what WotC wants to do.

Siani
 

Magi_Siani said:
Oh yes, considering Eberron; it isn't a nixed idea guys. We don't have a problem having such a room as long as the stipulations set forth are met, regardless of what WotC wants to do.

*gets back to working on those stipulations.* :p
 

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