D&D 5E D&D 5th Edition Will Fail

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Fanaelialae

Legend
Which skill would cover sulking? Bluff? Persuade?

Stealth!

(Ooops... thought you said skulking; what a difference a k makes!) ;)

As for the OP, I'd say give it some more time before deciding whether 5e is DOA. I mean, it's been out for what, 7 months? That's not a lot of time in the lifespan of an edition. A seemingly healthy number of people (judging by posts on ENWorld), myself included, have been enjoying the heck out of it thus far. I'd say that bodes well for 5e.

EDIT: Not sure if the OP's aware of this, but there is a spell point variant in the DMG.
 
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Celtavian

Dragon Lord
I don't know if the game will fail. That is way too big a claim.

I have to admit something feels off about the game. I'm not as enthusiastic as I was when 2E, 3E, and Pathfinder came out.

Some things I'm wondering about:
1. The adventures seem very uninspired. Paizo is releasing Giantslayer and I find myself wishing they were releasing it for 5E. I know it will probably be an amazing adventures series reminiscent of Against the Giants. I was so unimpressed with Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Tyranny of Dragons, I'm not looking forward to Princes of the Apocalypse. Even the reviews I've read make it sound like a pale shadow of a Paizo Adventure Path. I think I'm going to try running classic modules from TSR/WotC's Golden Era of adventure making.

I certainly wish WotC would let Paizo make 5E adventures. Not sure they would do it, but I would love for them to if allowed.

2. Something is off in combat. Combats are way too easy. It seems like combat should be more dangerous with lair and legendary actions. They are tough at lower level or if something is way higher CR than the party. Even creatures 3 or 4 CR higher than the party don't seem like a challenge. The burst damage from many classes is high enough to completely wipe out anything we face that doesn't have in excess of 200 hit points fairly quickly. Saves are often made and even when missed, effects are short-term and negligible. Monster tactics are extremely simplistic requiring little tactical acumen on the part of players.

It seems like WotC went all out with the first adventures. What is going to top fighting dragons as far as challenges go? We got to the point where killing dragons was a fairly trivial activity. Everything else we've fought is far weaker than dragons, thus even more trivial an encounter. Where do you go but down after fighting Tiamat and a hoard of dragons?

3. The character chassis seems very limited. There are a total of five feats or ability increases. How do you add feats to a game when there are so few slots to buy them? How are they going to allow for greater character customization with such a limited character chassis to build on? I know they will add archetypes. I'm not even sure what they'll do with them given the simplicity of the chassis. The base is so simple that interesting customization will be difficult.

I doubt the game will fail. Even 4E didn't fail, though it didn't live up to expectations. I'm wondering where they go with 5E?

With 3E you had such a robust chassis for building characters that it supported numerous books for character options that it took years to reach a point where they were too much. The customization options made it nearly impossible to try every character option you might possibly find interesting. I don't see that with this character building chassis. Maybe the designers will surprise with something unexpected. We shall see.

Something seems a bit off. I like 5E way better than 4E. I'm too tired of all the work needed for encounter design to return to 3E/Pathfinder. I haven't fallen in love with 5E yet. I'm wondering where they're going to go with it. I'm also extremely disappointed with the current paradigm for adventures. Rehashing old ideas like Elemental Evil doesn't fill me with confidence the creative well runs very deep. I want to see something more in WotC adventure and supplement design to give me confidence they are moving in an interesting creative direction.
 
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Schmoe

Adventurer
Posting trollish questions on 2 boards and you wonder why you get a bad response? I think this last sentence is truer than you intended.

Give this man a cigar.

ren, I'm not sure what response you were expecting on the Paizo boards, and I'm not sure what response you were expecting on ENWorld, but your delivery could use some work ;)

At any rate, some of your criticisms might have some merit, especially regarding the way the game is being handled from a corporate perspective. I disagree with most of your game criticisms, because they could have been leveled at earlier editions and yet a lot of people enjoyed them and they were quite successful. Personally, I'm torn between this and 3.5, but 5E really hits the mark in a lot of places for me.
 

JRedmond

Explorer
Personally I'd love to see a sub-forum for complaints. All those posts can go there or be moved there by mods. It would be nice to not have to see the constant negativity and use these forums as intended for news and resources of 5E. This allows the complainers to have a spot to go while the rest of us can completely ignore those. Anyone agree?
 

Dartavian

Explorer
Personally I'd love to see a sub-forum for complaints. All those posts can go there or be moved there by mods. It would be nice to not have to see the constant negativity and use these forums as intended for news and resources of 5E. This allows the complainers to have a spot to go while the rest of us can completely ignore those. Anyone agree?

+1, now this discussion has been validated!
 


Carlsen Chris

Explorer
"D&D 5th Edition Will Fail for Me and Other People Whose Preferences Are Exactly Like Mine" would've been a more accurate thread title.

Me, I find 5E combat to some of the most interesting of the editions, and I hate the idea of codified called shots system--just for one example of an instance where your list of "problems" is 100% subjective.

Is anything 100% subjective?
 

If 5e fails (and lets be honest it's more of a when then an if, all editions fail over time, with 2e just being the longest) it will just mean that WotC will release 6e.

However in my mind there are some things 5e could do to increase it's appeal. I will list them in no particle order:

1) Make a class that is the successor to the warlord. A leader who can heal and buff and grant attacks but has no magic.
2) Make a full gish class like Duskblade or Swordmage(my personal fav of the classes) or Bladesinger that fills the same role as ranger and paliden but for arcane types
3) Make a few campaigne setting books, alternate between classic and new (my list would be Birthright Ravonloft, Darksun, and Dragonlance for classics)
4) put out a bi-monthly pod cast or Vlog where the developers anser quastions, talk about projocts and tell us about the games they play
5) find a way to get the digital stuff moving again
 

Personally I'd love to see a sub-forum for complaints. All those posts can go there or be moved there by mods. It would be nice to not have to see the constant negativity and use these forums as intended for news and resources of 5E. This allows the complainers to have a spot to go while the rest of us can completely ignore those. Anyone agree?

I don't agree because I think you have the wrong idea about what a forum is for.

Game forums are supposed to be a place where everyone can discuss games in all it's aspects. Now I'm not talking about coming in and being vile with harsh one word complaints. The negatives are just as important as the positives because they can have an overall impact of the game.

If I don't like certain aspects of a game or how the game is being handled then I am going to express it because that is what forums are for. I will give my opinions, and sometimes facts, as to why a certain game isn't meeting my expectations and if you disagree then you present your opinion, and maybe facts, and we can go from there.

Be civil but don't try and shut people up just because you disagree with them.
 

Carlsen Chris

Explorer
3. The character chassis seems very limited. There are a total of five feats or ability increases. How do you add feats to a game when there are so few slots to buy them?

They probably can't be buggered to worry too much about feats since feats are optional in 5E.
 

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