D&D (2024) D&D 6th edition - What do you want to see?

[DWChancellor]

Eagles, hawks and snakes are prominent examples in the book. The strongest critters are weak pack critters, not bruisers.

They contribute to combat, in a way comparable to the equivalent level features of other subclasses as demonstrated above by @Sacrosanct . They are bonuses and tactical options for the PC, not agents in and of themselves.

Pretty much the same reason the entire "beast" type of 5E is dramatically weaker than other types at the same CRs. Thanks druids =)

Edit - Whoops - Bring back skill challenges in a big way! Front and center!

 

[Parmandur]

They demonstrated no such thing. Show me these examples, by the way. They aren't in the writeup for the ranger, at all, so far as I can tell. The strongest critters are fine at levels 3 to about 6 or 7. In that level range, you can choose a primarily scouting and advantage granting pet, or a pet that fights beside you, and the class doesn't punish either choice. It's later levels where one option becomes a trap.

What sacrosanct demonstrated was a misunderstanding of the subclass and what it's features are. 24 hp (at most) of mitigated damage isn't an actual thing when the pet can die from incidental damage from an AOE, and when almost no one that wants to play the archetype is really down for constantly replacing their subclass granted pet with an entirely new animal chosen from animals available in the area in which they're currently adventuring. What CR 1/4 beasts are you finding in dungeons, by the way? And it sure as hell isn't 24hp soaked up per long rest.
It takes 8 hours to regain the pet. There is no indication that this can be done as part of a long rest. How much time will the party let you take up regaining a pet every single adventuring day?

The idea that properly scaling HP (ie, HP scaling that doesn't decrease the pet's power over time) would make the pet equal to a full PC indicates a total lack of understanding, or refusal to admit to, what a PC has to work with. The pet has no special class features, very few proficiencies, etc. It's a wolf or whatever with some more HP. That doesn't compare at all to any PC class.

I did, however, demonstrate that your claim that it's supposed to be a scouting pet and NOT a combat companion is objectively false.

I never said it wasn't a combat asset: and as a combat asset, it makes a contribution as is. I agree making a pet archetype that treats pets as casually replaceable and disposable was a strategic mistake from a game design point of view, but it is working as intended.

 

[Sacrosanct]

What sacrosanct demonstrated was a misunderstanding of the subclass and what it's features are.

Nope. Pretty sure I listed all of them out. If there's anyone who has a misunderstanding here, it's you. You seem to be doing exactly what I warned of: assuming the pet has to be a stand alone combatant on equivalent footing as a stand alone PC. That's wrong. The subclass has to be balanced with other other subclass, and that's what I did by the comparison. You're also flawed in that you seem to be focused on combat only when you get many other benefits out of combat that the other subclass does not get. Those things matter. And you also have a misunderstanding on how math works in combat. For example:

24 hp (at most)

Not at most. At least. It takes at least 24 points of damage. And since we know that attacks rarely do exactly the hp total, a higher potential is protected. For example, if a monster does 10 hp of damage every round, it takes all 3 round to kill the pet. 30 points have been protected. And that's assuming every attack hits. Many will miss (especially if said pet is dodging). That sucks up even more attacks that would be directed otherwise at party members. And that's damage absorbed without anyone else having spent any other resources.

of mitigated damage isn't an actual thing when the pet can die from incidental damage from an AOE, and when almost no one that wants to play the archetype is really down for constantly replacing their subclass granted pet with an entirely new animal chosen from animals available in the area in which they're currently adventuring. What CR 1/4 beasts are you finding in dungeons, by the way? And it sure as hell isn't 24hp soaked up per long rest.

That's all speculation. And incorrect. When you long rest, it goes back to full, so theoretically you can reduce damage by an infinite amount depending on how many combats you have in how many days as long as you keep adventuring. All without spending a single resource. So at 3rd level with the classic panther, you can reduce at least 24 points per long rest. At higher levels, it's even more hp. 4 per level if I'm not mistaken.

It takes 8 hours to regain the pet. There is no indication that this can be done as part of a long rest. How much time will the party let you take up regaining a pet every single adventuring day?

I said long rest because anything of significant time more than a short rest is usually practically applicated once per day (it's not likely you'll go through more than one pet per day). Although, technically you don't need a long rest at all.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Also, what cr 1/4 or lower beasts are there that can be found in a dungeon?

Giant Bat
Giant Centipede
Giant Frog
Giant Lizard
Giant Poisonous Snake
Giant Wolf Spider
Giant Rat
Giant Weasel
Mastiff
Poisonous Snake
Stirge
Wolf

And swarms if you're really creative.

If you can't find a beast in a dungeon, you're a pretty poor ranger. And that's assuming you're stuck in a dungeon in the long haul and can't make it outside at some point to find another.

 

[Parmandur]

Nope. Pretty sure I listed all of them out. If there's anyone who has a misunderstanding here, it's you. You seem to be doing exactly what I warned of: assuming the pet has to be a stand alone combatant on equivalent footing as a stand alone PC. That's wrong. The subclass has to be balanced with other other subclass, and that's what I did by the comparison. You're also flawed in that you seem to be focused on combat only when you get many other benefits out of combat that the other subclass does not get. Those things matter. And you also have a misunderstanding on how math works in combat. For example:



Not at most. At least. It takes at least 24 points of damage. And since we know that attacks rarely do exactly the hp total, a higher potential is protected. For example, if a monster does 10 hp of damage every round, it takes all 3 round to kill the pet. 30 points have been protected. And that's assuming every attack hits. Many will miss (especially if said pet is dodging). That sucks up even more attacks that would be directed otherwise at party members. And that's damage absorbed without anyone else having spent any other resources.



That's all speculation. And incorrect. When you long rest, it goes back to full, so theoretically you can reduce damage by an infinite amount depending on how many combats you have in how many days as long as you keep adventuring. All without spending a single resource. So at 3rd level with the classic panther, you can reduce at least 24 points per long rest. At higher levels, it's even more hp. 4 per level if I'm not mistaken.



I said long rest because anything of significant time more than a short rest is usually practically applicated once per day (it's not likely you'll go through more than one pet per day). Although, technically you don't need a long rest at all.

Don't forget that, per the most recent Errata, the pet will use Hit Dice on a short Rest.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Interesting observation. a stirge is a beast, and I bet never chosen for a pet. But imagine the surprise at a 9th level beast master with a stirge.

"Ha! What a puny pet! You loser, it can't hurt me, it's a STIRGE!"

Stirge attacks at +9 to hit, and latches on, doing an average of 9.5 points of damage automatically each turn without needing to use any of the ranger's attack actions after the first. Enemy goes to swat it thinking it will be easy and finds out it has an AC of 18 and 36 hit points. Hmm....

5e, making the Minsc concept a reality!

 

[DWChancellor]

Interesting observation. a stirge is a beast, and I bet never chosen for a pet. But imagine the surprise at a 9th level beast master with a stirge.

Of course...

"The stirge can detach itself by spending 5 feet of its movement. It does so after it drains 10 hit points of blood from the target or the target dies."

Going to need a pack of stirges.

 

[Parmandur]

Of course...

"The stirge can detach itself by spending 5 feet of its movement. It does so after it drains 10 hit points of blood from the target or the target dies."

Going to need a pack of stirges.

A trained Stirge might behave differently...

 

[Sacrosanct]

Of course...

"The stirge can detach itself by spending 5 feet of its movement. It does so after it drains 10 hit points of blood from the target or the target dies."

Going to need a pack of stirges.

"No! bad stirge! you keep drinking! I never told you to stop!" lol

Although, now I want to create a beast master with a giant frog pet. Why? Just to humiliate the gnome paladins by swallowing them.

 

[DWChancellor]

Although, now I want to create a beast master with a giant frog pet. Why? Just to humiliate the gnome paladins by swallowing them.

Okay, maybe 6E needs better pet classes and skill challenges.