D&D and AD&D - 10 Players?

[Gentlegamer]

Conversely, the previews in Dragon convinced me the advent of a new game, not a new edition of AD&D was in production. What "proved" it for me was the new "3e" stats for Tiamat that Skip wrote up for Dragon . . .

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I tend to think of 3.X not so much as either a new game or a revision of D&D but rather as a 'new D&D'. It has elements that are identifiably D&D, yet rather than a group of minor systems it was codified into a single system that is recognizable as the core to hit system of D&D, with much of the unecessary math removed. (More math is added, but I am so darned glad that THAC0 is gone! The new math at least has a point. Why was armor class done the way it was in all the previous editions is a secret that I will never know.)

The Auld Grump

 

[Henry]

To return to topic, we occasionally had anywhere from 6 to 11 people in our groups, but 4 to 5 was the max, and we had a harder time when players reached over 6. In modern times I've had as many as 8, and another DM has DM'ed a Forgotten Realms 3E game with ELEVEN players.

One thing to also keep in mind: Gary when writing those modules was going off the popularity of his LOCAL groups; he has often remarked of having anywhere from 10 to 20 players in his basement at one time back in the 70's, all clamoring to play. At cons in the early days it was also quite popular, and you'll notice that by the early 80's those figures in the modules had already started to deflate.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

One thing to also keep in mind: Gary when writing those modules was going off the popularity of his LOCAL groups; he has often remarked of having anywhere from 10 to 20 players in his basement at one time back in the 70's, all clamoring to play. At cons in the early days it was also quite popular, and you'll notice that by the early 80's those figures in the modules had already started to deflate.

Another thing to consider is that the early game was still close to its wargame roots, so the notion of a player running several characters/figures/minis was still ingrained.

 

[TerraDave]

To return to topic, we occasionally had anywhere from 6 to 11 people in our groups, but 4 to 5 was the max, and we had a harder time when players reached over 6. In modern times I've had as many as 8, and another DM has DM'ed a Forgotten Realms 3E game with ELEVEN players.

One thing to also keep in mind: Gary when writing those modules was going off the popularity of his LOCAL groups; he has often remarked of having anywhere from 10 to 20 players in his basement at one time back in the 70's, all clamoring to play. At cons in the early days it was also quite popular, and you'll notice that by the early 80's those figures in the modules had already started to deflate.

Yep, just like I said, thanks for backing me up-

 

[scadgrad]

Weird, I disagree with everything mentioned here. And most of the 'grognards' that I know have come back to the game, having been alienated by 2nd ed. (Some of them dinosaurs dating back to the '70s.) I have not met any who were alienated by 3rd, and tons that left during 2nd. So by all means let us go back to the halycon days of 2nd ed...

In what way is this not trying to start an edition war by the way? They seem to be keeping the whales that TSR lost.

The Auld Grump

Look, I was just answering Quasetron's post. And no I don't want to go back to 2nd ed either.

The grognard whales that I'm referring to (and I'm defintely one of those "dinosaurs dating back to the '70s") are those of us who're no longer spending our jack on WotC product, but have moved onto other companies' products. We're not a huge segment of the market yet, but at the same time She Who Shall Not Be Named didn't run me away from being a loyal customer during the death throes of TSR so my being "off the reservation" as it were surprises even me. This may be entirely my own anecdotal experience, but I think it's something that WotC should consider, that is if more and more older DMs drift toward other systems, the potential loss of revenue could be pretty high.

 

[Gentlegamer]

Just call her POG, as Frank Mentzer does . . .

 

[TheAuldGrump]

This may be entirely my own anecdotal experience, but I think it's something that WotC should consider, that is if more and more older DMs drift toward other systems, the potential loss of revenue could be pretty high.

I am seeing less drift than I did under 1st ed, and a lot less than in 2nd ed. So I would say that yes, it is just your anecdotal experience. And a lot of the 'drift' that I am seeing is to variant D20 and OGL based systems, rather than some of the radically different systems that blossomed in TSR's heyday. I am sure WotC is considering it, but I am also sure that they are taking it with more than a grain of salt. (Closer to a wheelbarrow...) The potential loss of revenue from giving in to the grumbling grognards far outweighs their purchases.

The Auld Grump