Pathfinder 1E D&D and Pathfinder tied for first place on ICv2 Q3 RPG sales list

[Crothian]

Dresdsen Files is number 5! That is a huge win for Evil Hat. To me that is more suprising then anything else on that page.

 

[Umbran]

And I do believe I can hear the shrieks, mantras of denial and beating of fists all the way over here. . .

You show your own partisan colors no less strongly, by saying that.

So, let us be clear - arguing, edition or corporate fandom warring, or just general snobbish jerkitude will get no quarter from the Mods in this thread. Consider yourselves warned.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Translation: The Advanced Player's Guide, and to a lesser extent the Gamemastery Guide, sold very, very well.

If you have talked with a large number of retailers, this should not come as a surprise to anyone. Pathfinder sells extremely well in some regions, outselling D&D in those areas. In other areas, the reverse remains true and D&D remains #1.

For those who listened to Episode 007 of our Podcast in early September - Erik Mona confirmed that the APG printing for Gencon essentially sold out at Gencon (all but a little less than one box acording to Erik). Add that to the number of sucscribers who purchased a copy of the first print run of the APG - and I'm not at all surprised to see Paizo do so well.

I'll go further: I predict that in at least one (and possibly two) of the next five quarters?

Paizo will come in at #1 and WotC be at #2.

When you look at the sheer number of products that Paizo releases for Pathfinder RPG -- really -- none of this should be a surprise to anyone. Pathfinder is an extremely popular game with a product line written by pros in the business with as deep a pedigree as any at WotC.

 

[billd91]

What Cor Malek said. But hey, if you say what someone wants to hear, they'll believe you regardless of actual data. A certain tycoon has built a veritable media empire on that premise.

And saying something against preconceived notions will bring out snarky criticisms as well, it seems.

I wouldn't mind seeing more about who they contacted (and who may not have participated in the data collection), but ICv2 isn't exactly a stranger to pop culture industries like comics and games. They're well placed to know a lot about the market whether they show us their work or not. Dismissals based on prejudice without data to back them up aren't of use to anybody.

 

[Nifft]

I wonder how many 4e players have stopped buying books entirely, and rely on DDI subscriptions instead.

Me & my group are five such people.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Festivus]

Paizo recently released a book that really expanded out options for players, something they hadn't done for a while (not since the core rulebook anyhow). At the same time, Wizards came out with red box and psionic power, which might be a far more limited audience.

One of the things I can't quite figure out is how Paizo is in competition with the FLGS, and yet the stores still report good sales. You can buy the books at the FLGS, sure, but if you buy them from Paizo, you get the PDF too. Plus if you subscribe you get a discount on the products. Perhaps the margin is really good on Paizo books?

I think competition is good, it keeps you on your toes. So, non-quantitative data or not, congratulations to Paizo, keep up the good work.

 

[Herschel]

I'm not even sure WotC or Paizo has all their sales data gathered in any sort of presentation form yet. We're only four days in to the new quarter. And I doubt either is releasing any raw data to any outside source.

"Sales" isn't even a real measure without knowing what the criteria is. Is it simply orders for, receivables, product delivered...... during the period, and is it a true perios or do they account on a fiscal quarter vs. a calendar quarter?

ICv2 interviewed some people and presented it without any actual figures. Not exactly reliable "fact" to base a chart on and irresponsible reporting at best.

It would have been much better and more reliable to say "Paizo has very strong third quarter in product sales from retail sources we interviewed" but of course that doesn't make them sound very authoritative.

 

[Cor_Malek]

And saying something against preconceived notions will bring out snarky criticisms as well, it seems.

I wouldn't mind seeing more about who they contacted (and who may not have participated in the data collection), but ICv2 isn't exactly a stranger to pop culture industries like comics and games. They're well placed to know a lot about the market whether they show us their work or not. Dismissals based on prejudice without data to back them up aren't of use to anybody.

TBH, I'd dismiss it even if I had actual data backing it up from other sources. It's this very form of communication, or fact presentation they showed - that I'm against, because it creates awful rep to actual statistics and undermines very premise of providing information. It is something I see all around - in newsmedia, politics, and marketing. You wave around someone with authority and he just says stuff. A honoured professor pulling one stunt like that would be regarded as falling apart - rightfully so. But a talking head on TV, or beloved intertubes says X without any context - or, far more often, openly showing careless approach (yay online polls!) and everyone nods their heads. As to this piece of reporting - I look at it as the latter.

If I seem to be overreacting - that's because I actually see impact of this mentality as part of my work as well as other, connected fields.
If I presented a snappy opinion rather than pointing out that they formed numerical classification based on descriptive measuring tool; and that what little we know about their methodology suggests that it can be heavily tainted by cognitive biases like (but not limited to): anchoring and availability heuristic... That's because I, as a reader and consumer - feel that it's belittling that someone who's supposedly a good source of information believes I should be content to believe him based on description that would fit in a single Tweet.

As some context - I endorse Steel_Winds post. Is it communicating different message? Not really. But it's form recognizes recipient as a thinking being that can ask questions. The ICv2 article presented absolutes based on doubtful source, and called it a day.

 

[Nifft]

At the same time, Wizards came out with red box and psionic power, which might be a far more limited audience.

You may be right regarding Psi Power, but the new Red Box is supposed to appeal to a wide audience, isn't it? It is WotC's "grow the game market" product.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Maggan]

I'll go further: I predict that in at least one (and possibly two) of the next five quarters?

Paizo will come in at #1 and WotC be at #2.

What you say seems plausible. I would then predict that Paizo will start releasing hardcover rule expansions to a greater degree than previously, having saturated the Adventure Path market.

/M